Wing Chun and The root

[Hendrik]

root·ed, root·ing, roots

v. intr.

1. To grow roots or a root.
2. To become firmly established, settled, or entrenched.
3. To come into existence; originate.

v. tr.

1. To cause to put out roots and grow.
2. To implant by or as if by the roots.
3. To furnish a primary source or origin to.
4. To remove by or as if by the roots. Often used with up or out: "declared that waste and fraud will be vigorously rooted out of Government" (New York Times).

words... but full of empty words.

[sanjuro_ronin]

words... but full of empty words.

hardly, you seem to have not understood what I posted earlier:

Like I mentioned on another thread, rooting is task specific and system specific.

[Hardwork108]

first becomes a ball, only after the ball state one can become a flow.

And becoming the "ball" involves becoming "relaxed", "soft" and "sensitive (listening abilities) using the correct mind set?

To "roll" the ball then one must use the mind (or mind like water) to "flow"?

You are talking about the above?


Which would in part explain the following part of kuen kuit? :

Thus, the kuen kuit said, "comes accept, goes return... using silence to lead action"

As it said in Zen,


The dumb teaching the dumb
One is teaching one is learning but both clueless.
The sifu goes to hell.
and
guess where the heck the student end up?

They might end up with a BJJ black belt and then post in this forum thinking that the BJJ black belt together with some bad kung fu makes them a Wing Chun expert.

Time to wake up.

Agreed.

[Hardwork108]

root·ed, root·ing, roots

v. intr.

1. To grow roots or a root.
2. To become firmly established, settled, or entrenched.
3. To come into existence; originate.

v. tr.

1. To cause to put out roots and grow.
2. To implant by or as if by the roots.
3. To furnish a primary source or origin to.
4. To remove by or as if by the roots. Often used with up or out: "declared that waste and fraud will be vigorously rooted out of Government" (New York Times).

[Yoshiyahu]

Wounderful post Hendrik...Since you are enlighten please share with us


What is rooting?

Also what Systems teach rooting correctly? Would you say Hung Gar?



An if WC shouldn't use Rooting at any time but only flow...Does that mean in order to flow you have to sacrifice your root? Does that mean your stance never sinks into the ground?

Does this mean you do not use ground power to generate strikes?


Is it useless to practice rooting in WC?

If yes what is the alternative?

first becomes a ball, only after the ball state one can become a flow.


Thus, the kuen kuit said, "comes accept, goes return... using silence to lead action"

But most keep reciting the kuen kuit and spinning thier brain and argue in the forum without knowing a single thing of what the kuen kuit teach.


As it said in Zen,


The dumb teaching the dumb
One is teaching one is learning but both clueless.
The sifu goes to hell.
and
guess where the heck the student end up?





Time to wake up.

[Hendrik]

Wounderful post Hendrik...Since you are enlighten please share with us ----

if you read my post, you will not asking me the following questions of yours.



What is rooting? ----


How can I know what the heck you are doing?





Also what Systems teach rooting correctly? Would you say Hung Gar? -----

Can you mind your own business and master your own art before anything?





An if WC shouldn't use Rooting at any time but only flow...Does that mean in order to flow you have to sacrifice your root? Does that mean your stance never sinks into the ground? -------


all these speculation. why dont you master your own art and see for yourself instead of ask 100000 people and sifus and all opinions are great but empty words.





Does this mean you do not use ground power to generate strikes? ----

again all the mind speculation.





Is it useless to practice rooting in WC? If yes what is the alternative?-----

what is a sifu is for? ask your sifu .

[Hendrik]

And becoming the "ball" involves becoming "relaxed", "soft" and "sensitive (listening abilities) using the correct mind set?

To "roll" the ball then one must use the mind (or mind like water) to "flow"?

You are talking about the above?


Which would in part explain the following part of kuen kuit? :



)

1, what you mention above " relaxed, soft, sensitive......correct mind set " still didnt enter the door. because those doesnt describe the kung fu. as I said before, what I have heard is the 8 special medirians GOT to activate.

relaxed, soft, sensitive... correct mind set sound great but that description is no different then having a romantic cozy chat with my pretty girl friend beside the fire place in the cold wisconsin when I was a teenager. what is that got to do with activating the 8 medirians and activate the body smoothly.


2, one cant jump into the kuen kuit until having a certain level attainment in SLT. otherwise, it becomes a Quoting games, who dont know how to qout confusian, Lao Tze, Buddha, but can one do it that is a very very different story.



3, See, no one here asked me why do I said 1/6? where is that number comes from? that shows how sad is this world , people just want to listern what they want to listern, argue to win, and being agree on.

with only 1/6 training even if one have full training one only can handle 16.6% of the case, no wonder as what Mas Oyama said, those Kung Fu guys keep talking about footwork and all the flowery stuffs but they cant move when engage.

Thus, there is a making fun of WCK Kuen kuit said
" come accept, goes return, but you couldnt even move. Let go and thrust forward both hit each other."

Or

in Cantonese,

Lai lau hui Soong, Lei Chao but tong.
Lat sau jet choong, leong ko chai chung.



WAKE uP on these Pseudo Taijin import Rooting game.


the 1/6 is strickly basic physics. but most have no clue. but keep day dreaming in thier YJKYM and SLT. keep day dream and getting older and older and making more stories and stories. but cant even handle the basic physics.


For those who is interested, dig into this forum and check into my post on the six directional force and Non Broken arrow platform. That is the begining of the "ball".

http://kungfuqigong.com/forum/showth...ectional+force

[Yoshiyahu]

My Sifu believes in practing the root...an the yip man school i visited also practice rooting...

Wounderful post Hendrik...Since you are enlighten please share with us ----

if you read my post, you will not asking me the following questions of yours.



What is rooting? ----


How can I know what the heck you are doing?





Also what Systems teach rooting correctly? Would you say Hung Gar? -----

Can you mind your own business and master your own art before anything?





An if WC shouldn't use Rooting at any time but only flow...Does that mean in order to flow you have to sacrifice your root? Does that mean your stance never sinks into the ground? -------


all these speculation. why dont you master your own art and see for yourself instead of ask 100000 people and sifus and all opinions are great but empty words.





Does this mean you do not use ground power to generate strikes? ----

again all the mind speculation.





Is it useless to practice rooting in WC? If yes what is the alternative?-----

what is a sifu is for? ask your sifu .

[Hendrik]

My Sifu believes in practing the root...an the yip man school i visited also practice rooting...

Fine, ask your sifu.

[Yoshiyahu]

Fine, ask your sifu.

I know what my Sifu teaches about Root. An I agree with his teachings...

But I am curious about your definitions?

Please share your enlightenment:

What is rooting?

Also what Systems teach rooting correctly? Would you say Hung Gar?

[taai gihk yahn]

As it said in Zen,


The dumb teaching the dumb
One is teaching one is learning but both clueless.
The sifu goes to hell.
and
guess where the heck the student end up?



Time to wake up.

that's a good one; the key aspect is that the way that the teacher and the student are "cluless" is very different; it's the same thing in regards to how the Emperor Liang and Boddhidharma say "I don't know" when asked about the true nature of Dharma; meaning that the Emperor (student) really is clueless, whereas Boddhidharma's (teacher) "cluelessness" is based on direct experience of "no mind" (hence, "cluless");

the teacher going "to he1l" is a way of indicating that he has to descend into danger in order to teach - meaning that he has to risk mispeaking himself by utilizing words which, while being necessary in order to instruct someone who has not awakened, are inherently dualistic and therefore cannot actually relay what the teacher has experienced ("the Dao that can be spoken of etc."); this can also be described as going down into the weeds; in one famous koan, the teacher says he will die and go to hel1, and the surprised student asks him why, the teacher says that if he doesn't go to he1l to teach the student, who will? again, it means that the teacher has to "regress" back into the dusty world in order to truly teach - this is a key aspect of Ch'an - the teacher is as much "at risk" as the student, so it truly is interactive - if the teacher were teaching from "beyond" the range of the student's experience, then he really can't reach the student directly...it's like trying to rescue someone drowning in the middle of a lake by staying on the shore: won't work...

[Wayfaring]

Okay Guys what would be the best way to use your BJJ along with Wingchun to counter a Tai Chi Quan guy of Hung Gar guy who has a solid root.

I could be wrong but My limited knowledge I would say use a front kick to shins to distract him or front kick to abs and then follow up with chain punches to drive him to the ropes. An when in the clinch trap his power punching arm and utilize a classic a aikido lock and take down to get him face down on the ground. When he is faced down on the ground move in for the rear mount(back mount) an place him in a rear naked choke hold until he passes out or taps out. An then bamo wamo you wing $5000.

What do you guys think?

How would you guys go about doing it. I may be wrestling a big heman looking guy soon. He is big,black and a huge muscular Hercules. He also has practiced Greco roman wrestling with a little Wing Chun,Reika and Yoga.

Whats your advice guys?

Advice? Sure. Stop describing hypothetical situations with romosexual descriptions?

[Wayfaring]

Does a ball have root?

The faster a ball is rolling the more surface area of it is in connection with the ground in a given period.

One example is motorized vehicles. Hitting the accelerator increases the stability in the back end.

[punchdrunk]

maybe instead of using nonspecific jargon we should make this as plain as possible. Could we agree that rooting is being able to control our foot work under the pressure given by an opponent? If this isn't a good enough description I encourage everyone to offer other ideas. Once we get past that we can discuss how different people train it and what their goals are. This could become a good topic if we don't get stuck.

[Hendrik]

maybe instead of using nonspecific jargon we should make this as plain as possible. Could we agree that rooting is being able to control our foot work under the pressure given by an opponent? If this isn't a good enough description I encourage everyone to offer other ideas. Once we get past that we can discuss how different people train it and what their goals are. This could become a good topic if we don't get stuck.

The so called Rooting in general today is only cover one of the 6 direction force in a 3 diamensional physical world.

Meaning,

the down ward force vector is just 1/6 of the total, 6 directional force.


See, the Chinese model is a six directional force . when all the force vector is complete, This in Taiji is called Huan Yuan lik in Yee Chuan is Called Liu Mean lik.

So, those who doing standing post or Zhan Zhuang to cultivate holistic momentum ability. The ultimate goal is to cultivate this six directional force.




Thus, say in Taiji, it talks about Root, but in the same time, it also talk about Hang.
meaning the Root from Ground and Head top hang to heaven.

with this Root and Hang couple, one has a balance one dimensional practice. However, it is still not complete. because it lacks the left/right and forward/backward components.

So, up/down, left/right, forward/backward = the six directional needs to be holistic in order to become the So called Taiji ball, or the Hoon Yuan .....etc. before one can roll.


So, the reason in the ancient time, one needs to stand in the post for 3 months to 3 years or always go back and refine the stand in post or Zhan Zhuang is to fine tune the 6 directional force . without those, foot work....etc just doesnt do much. there is no instant Noodle Kung Fu. sure some might progress faster then others but no Instant Noodle.

And extremely important, one needs to have the complete view and process.
Say, if today we dont know about the 6 directional force. we keep practice the rooting, one can do it in 1000X life time, still, one cant move properly, that is for sure.


While one "root" one needs to "hang" so that the "root" doesnt become "DEAD weight" , the spine not become compressing but betwen joins of the spine like cusion with an air packet. .....
Thus, one could totally drill into the center of the earth but feeling float like weight less. That is the essential of SLT/SNT training. thus, it is not Hung Gar Iron wire or .... it is a different type of kung fu.

See, rooting is nothing to do with heavy.


Now, people takes partial thing such as ROOT and make a big deal on it. well, one can do anyting one wants and argue about it, but if one doesnt even know and later have /transform one's "momentum body "into a ball or 6 directional balance momentum one doesnt that kung fu.




without the holistic six directional force training, forget about fajin. one doesnt have the basic training to support fa jin. and the 6 directional force vectors links to the activation of the 8 special medirians.

all of these above and jin and lik has to be crystal clear on the cause and effect, nothing mysterious.


Finally, hope that the information above is used for our daily living, because we all are aging, knowing these stuffs , do a proper training will aid us for our movements at old age.




just some thoughts.