Who's the master?!?!

[DBAC]

"Sho'Nuff"!

But seriously, I created this thread to avoid taking another one further off topic. I was curious about how some people view the word "Master" as a title. On that same note, how do you translate "Sifu"?

[Three Harmonies]

Sifu is cantonese for the Mandarin Shifu. Literally = teacher-father. Meant to denote when one has been "adopted" into the martial family. Here in the west silly white men, and Chinese who want to profit, use the term loosely in an effort to stroke ego.

In general I avoid anyone who refers to themselves as "master."

JAB

[mooyingmantis]

What Jake said!

Though I do like it when my wife calls me the "MASTERBLASTER"!

[EarthDragon]

shifu as Jake said teacher/father.... you can have this term for cooking painting, or any skill, not just MA

Master again in any skill but it means you have learned all thier is to learn and cannot learn anymore.

[mooyingmantis]

From what I have seen locally it is the TKD schools that abuse the "master" title. Once you turn a 4th degree bb in TKD you can call yourself a "master".

None of the kung fu guys I personally know use the term master.

My Sifu didn't even expect us to call him "sifu". And I have carried on that tradition. My students, if adults, call me Richard. Kids just call me "Mr. Tolson".

[Three Harmonies]

"Masterblaster" That is some funny **** Richard!

[MightyB]

"Sho'Nuff"!

But seriously, I created this thread to avoid taking another one further off topic. I was curious about how some people view the word "Master" as a title. On that same note, how do you translate "Sifu"?

From my limited understanding: "Sifu" is a two-way street, meaning that you have to be accepted as a student by that person in order to call that person Sifu.

[Dragonzbane76]

don't mind sifu or teacher, but "master" has to many "attachements" to it. I generally stay away from people whom proclaim themselves "masters"

I really don't care if your an 80 year old oriental looking fellow that has been in every style ever taught, master is just a term that is not that favorable with me. each to there own but just my thoughts.

and honestly can anyone say they have mastered something, NO there is always more to learn.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

don't mind sifu or teacher, but "master" has to many "attachements" to it. I generally stay away from people whom proclaim themselves "masters"

I really don't care if your an 80 year old oriental looking fellow that has been in every style ever taught, master is just a term that is not that favorable with me. each to there own but just my thoughts.

and honestly can anyone say they have mastered something, NO there is always more to learn.

You keep saying things like this and the "Masters" will send their minions out after you!

[ShaolinDan]

I think a lot of schools just translate 'Sigong' as 'Master' for the sake of the public. I agree it's loaded with connotations, but grand-teacher/father doesn't have such a great ring to it in English either.

I think calling oneself master and being called master by one's students/grand-students are two different things. A lot of the time it's the students who write the websites.

[Dragonzbane76]

You keep saying things like this and the "Masters" will send their minions out after you!

Oh I will relish the day...

[yu shan]

I think of my teaching style more like a coach, so I like Jiao Lian. But I have nice students who call me Shifu.

[Three Harmonies]

What I find amusing is white people, in the west, straining to use Chinese terms and language!? No other activity does such silliness! Could you imagine a Mongolian trying to teach baseball in Mongolia using English just because the sport was founded in America!? Communicate in the native tongue. Here in the US "Mr." is a sign of respect, or like Jim said "coach" (the English version). "Teacher" is fine no?

JAB

[DBAC]

What I find amusing is white people, in the west, straining to use Chinese terms and language!? No other activity does such silliness! Could you imagine a Mongolian trying to teach baseball in Mongolia using English just because the sport was founded in America!? Communicate in the native tongue. Here in the US "Mr." is a sign of respect, or like Jim said "coach" (the English version). "Teacher" is fine no?

JAB

You compare your Kung Fu to a sport? How sad...

A teacher using the language of their arts origin is not as silly as you believe. Most aspects of any CMA are very difficult to translate into English. What I find amusing are those who attempt to translate everything into English. More often then not they miss the point and intent behind the original terminology.

As for the question of Master and Sifu (all of my romanization is for Cantonese) I find that the title of Master in a martial arts school is generally held to a different standard than when it is used in other Western fields. This seems especially true for people already involved in martial arts. While titles such as Master Plumber connote expertise in a field or titles such as High Master are honorific and denote a level of authority, there is no usage of the word as a title or adjective that means your expertise is complete. This understanding seems to be reserved for Martial Arts, and even then strictly amongst those already heavily involved.

Perhaps this is because too many have come through the Western world with the title of Master, claiming to know it all, and thus the negative connotation in this field. But as far as the accepted usage of the word across the Western world, the Chinese term "Sifu", both as functional and honorific, translates well into "Master".

[Syn7]

yeah, master was a term dicsiples used, no??? since they turned their lives over to their sifu... like a vassal would call his lord 'master', a dicsiple would call his sifu 'master'... but a regular student wouldnt be a vassal hence not calling him a master... i dunno, i could be wrong, i know it was like that in other parts of the world...