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Thread: Wang Lang Mantis Origins

  1. #1
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    Wang Lang Mantis Origins

    What places Wang Lang in the Ming Dynasty as opposed to the Song Dynasty as proposed by the Luohan Xing gong Duan Da?

    Is there any connection between the Wang Lang of Mantis fame and Wang Lang from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms? Maybe somebody liked the character and used the name as the legendary founder of mantis?

    Are any of the 18 masters verifiable?

    I want to write a history of mantis that presents what is fact, what is probable, and what is myth.

    I don’t want to pass on the same old oral histories as if they were fact.

    Here is a first draft

    The origins of Praying Mantis kung fu are impossible to verify. The oral history of the style is completely infused with legend, and no reliable historical documents have been found. What follows is an interpretation of those myths set against the back drop of history.

    Praying Mantis Gong Fu is wide spread in the Shandong providence of Northern China which gives credence to the theory that it originated there, possibly at one of the Taoist temples located on Lao Shan “mountain”. The Temple of Supreme Purity (built 960-1279), The Temple of Supreme Peace (built 960-1279), The Temple of Great Purity (built 1297-1307) and the Buddhist Temple of Huayan Si (built mid 17th century) are each located on Lao Shan, and each could have been the birth place of Mantis Gong Fu during the Ming Dynasty (1368–1644). Though, it is possible that the Mantis style has no connection to any temple outside of its creation myth.

    Wang Lang was said to be the creator of the style, though his existence has never been credibly verified. He is most often credited with creating the style during the Ming Dynasty (1368–1644) or the earlier Song Dynasty (960-1279). The legend of Wang Lang as the creator of the style is probably a fabrication, a possible reference to the historical and legendary Wang Lang (3rd Century) from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, though this is pure conjecture.

    The next person in the Mantis lineage is Shen Xiao who is claimed to have learned the style from “temple monks”. Shen Xiao wrote or received a book called Luohan Xínggong Duan Da, published in 1794, it claims the mantis style was created or refined in the Song Dynasty (960-1279) as collaboration between Wang Lang and the legendary personas of a Shaolin martial monk Fu-Ju and masters from 17 other styles at the Shaolin Temple in located in Henan province. Fu-Ju is often mistaken for the Abbot Fu Yu who headed up a Shaolin branch temple in Mongolia. To further confuse the temple connection Shen Xian was also said to be Abbot of a Yun Hua Temple and a met his disciple Li San Jian at a Green Dragon Temple.
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  2. #2
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    If I may...

    The legend of Wang Lang creating Tanglangquan is actually a twist of the story "White Ape Steals the Peach" (WASP), which is a very popular tale from the saga of the struggle between 2 of the States during the Warring States period. It is so popular that there are even opera performances of it. This saga is also known as "Sun Pang Yan Yi" in which Sun refers to Sun Bin representing the State of Qi (modern day Shandong)and Pang refers to Pang Juan representing the State of Wei (modern day Henan). These two are said to be students of a famous strategist Gui Gu Zi(鬼谷子), who's real name was Wang Xu (王詡). The rivalry between the 2 fellow students/brethren became the main theme of the Wang Lang legend also. The central message of the tale is about the 7 virtues of morality, which is the reason that it is adapted to promote as well as reinforce the ideal code of conduct of martial arts community specially the caravan escorts trade during the Qing dynasty.

    The truth is Tanglangquan as we know it actually has ties to the caravan escorts trade,which folded completely due to the modernization of China (i.e. rail roads & trains).

    It appears that there was a "style" of martial arts known as Lianquan (linked fist) practiced within the walls of the caravan escorts companies throughout the capital (Beijing) and Shandong Province. This is the style that is documented in the "Luohan Xinggong Duanda" (AKA Arhat Short Strikes) . Lianquan would appear to be an amalgamation of Long fist specially Tongbei and short strike (ie Xingquan and/or Fanziquan). The documentation of Lianquan eventually became part of the heritage of modern day Shandong Tanglang Quan. This means Lianquan may not necessarily be the "origin" of Tanglang Quan but its documentation, namely "Luohan Xinggong Duanda", has become the inseparable heritage of Tanglang Quan.

    One thing of note is that Lianquan could be Yue Jia Quan (General Yue Fei's style), which was a popular style practiced amongst the caravan escort companies and we still have Yue Jia Quan practiced in various Tanglangquan branches today.

    Mantis108
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  3. #3
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    Thanks...

    Do you have a link to an English version of the "White ape steals the peach" story?

    I am familiar with the tale of Sun Bin and Pang Juan in general.

    What leads you to the conclusion that the Wang Lang tale is based on Sun Bin?
    - 三和拳

    "Civilize the mind but make savage the body" Mao Tse Tsung

    "You're certainly intelligent enough to know how to be a good person without the lead weights of religious dogma." Serpent

    "There is no evidence that the zombie progeny of an incestuous space ghost cares what people do." MasterKiller

    "If there isn't a chance that you're going to lose in a fight, then you're not fighting tough enough competition." ShaolinTiger00

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanHeChuan View Post
    Are any of the 18 masters verifiable?
    According to the noted literary critic C.T. Hsia, with the exception of Song Jiang, the names of his underlings have never been found in reliable historical sources. Therefore, Lin Chong and Yan Qing should be considered fictional characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by SanHeChuan View Post
    Thanks...

    Do you have a link to an English version of the "White ape steals the peach" story?

    I am familiar with the tale of Sun Bin and Pang Juan in general.

    What leads you to the conclusion that the Wang Lang tale is based on Sun Bin?
    I am interested in learning the connection myself.

    C.T. Hsia has an interesting study on the Military Romance genre of Chinese fiction in his book C.T. Hsia on Chinese Literature. The common plot of the genre deals with Tang and Song Dynasty heroes training under immortal masters prior to their military exploits. Hsia believes the mold from which all other similar teachers are cast is Gui Guzi from the Yuan period tale Latter Volume of the Spring and Autumn Annals of the Seven Kingdoms (七國春秋後集). The feuding of Sun Bin and Pang Juan influenced the struggles between two celestials in The Investiture of the Gods (封神演義). Furthermore, Hsia says this influenced the storyline from The Story of Yue Fei (說岳全傳) where Zhou Tong takes Lin Chong and Lu Junyi as his students prior to Yue Fei. The two were, of course, never among his historical students.

    (It wouldn't be too much of a leap to suggest the Military Romance genre influenced the common martial arts legend of a person learning boxing from an immortal / nameless Taoist priest.)

    Yuen Mankai believes Zhou contributed to the creation of Mantis boxing by teaching Lin Chong a school of boxing that he mixed with the 17 others in the Shaolin temple. None of this should be accepted as historical fact.
    Last edited by ghostexorcist; 08-09-2010 at 08:09 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanHeChuan View Post
    What places Wang Lang in the Ming Dynasty as opposed to the Song Dynasty as proposed by the Luohan Xing gong Duan Da?
    Or that he even existed?
    What version of Luohan Xing gong Duan Da mentions Wang Lang in the Song dynasty?

    One version I have seen only goes as far as the following quote, others I have seen don't even mention Fu Ju.

    "Short Strikes was written by Shaolin’s Chan Master Fu Ju. The theoretical commentary is an expertly defined true interpretation."

    I have not seen anywhere in old manuscripts the mention of Wang Lang in either the Song or Ming dynasty.

    Quote Originally Posted by SanHeChuan View Post
    Is there any connection between the Wang Lang of Mantis fame and Wang Lang from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms?
    Where in three kingdoms? Which book and chapter? Any information here would be greatly appreciated.

    Verifiable Masters of 18 Family


    Zhao Kuang Yin
    Han Tong
    Gao Huai De
    Zhen En
    These four from memory are the ones I have found having lived during and before the Song.
    Han Tong died on the eve of the creation of the Song Dynasty.

    As I recall (my notes are at home) Gao and Zhen are generals during Zhao's time.
    These people are all united in the novel Fei Long Zhuan (untranslated) which was read during the Ming Dynasty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tainan Mantis View Post
    Where in three kingdoms? Which book and chapter? Any information here would be greatly appreciated.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Lang

    The Chinese characters appear to be the same.

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    Lian Quan

    Quote Originally Posted by mantis108 View Post
    The documentation of Lianquan eventually became part of the heritage of modern day Shandong Tanglang Quan.
    Here is a translation of the first of three parts of Lian Quan. It is written in 7 character rhyming verse.

    The Central Gate's 32 Gates Essential Key Connected Fist Song
    1. Both hands pass the head empty block flies through emptiness
    2. Embrace the head connect the step take the center
    3. Raise the step inner deceive watch the shadow’s shape
    4. Cleaving apart the central gate presses the top
    5. Returning horse take a step turn over and raise the pole
    6. Stealing hand overturn the body raise the sea bottom
    7. Crouch the body connected fist hurriedly rushing jump
    8. Hawk overturns yellow dragon shakes
    9. Collapsing smash piercing cheeks tiger washes face
    10. Stealing leak hook punch take the temple
    11. Chopping palm paste to the wall enter with the stopping elbow
    12. Colliding elbow defeating elbow raise the rear hand
    13. Black tiger attacks the heart connecting step and elbow
    14. Beating hand stealing hand chop the mouth
    15. Connected fist entering hand dig out the cave
    16. Double hook shutting hands return to the old road
    17. Paste to the gate deceiving dodge hurriedly take and close
    18. Yecha probes the sea hands beat the earth
    19. A pair of swallows fly to hide in the bottom of the well
    20. Weary dragon emerges from hibernation and raises up the body
    21. Carp overturns the body bog cleave splits it
    22. Swallow resides in well coils waist and hops
    23. Chen Tuan great fatigue eighteen binding
    24. Eagle grasps finch connect to nine rolls
    25. Wild horse on manger danger upon danger
    26. Great Roc thrusts forward its wings and turns the body back
    27. Green dragon shakes its tail launch both hands
    28. Wrap and seal raise the step turn the body and dodge
    29. Wrap and impede stealing hand strike against the knee
    30. Following step raising hands to the tiger's face
    31. Collapse open the yamen paste to both doors
    32. Both hands embrace the moon and pick the heart
    Last edited by Tainan Mantis; 08-09-2010 at 07:54 AM.

  8. #8
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    Verifiable Masters of 18 Family


    Zhao Kuang Yin
    Han Tong
    Gao Huai De
    Zhen En
    These four from memory are the ones I have found having lived during and before the Song.
    Han Tong died on the eve of the creation of the Song Dynasty.

    As I recall (my notes are at home) Gao and Zhen are generals during Zhao's time.
    These people are all united in the novel Fei Long Zhuan (untranslated) which was read during the Ming Dynasty.
    Even though they are verifiable, I would still caution connecting them with martial arts. As I'm sure you well know, historical personas are often retroactively attributed as creating styles of martial arts centuries after their deaths.

    Another important thing to point out is that even if the Water Margin bandits listed among the masters were real people, they would not have been alive during the time of Emperor Zhao and his associates. The Song was founded in 960, while the bandit uprising took place in the early 1120's. If they were alive then, Lin Chong and Yan Qing would have been pushing almost 200 by the time of the Song rebellion.

    Considering the timeline conflict and the introduction of fictional characters, I think the list should actually be looked at more as a metaphor for techniques borrowed from other styles.
    Last edited by ghostexorcist; 08-09-2010 at 08:39 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tainan Mantis View Post
    Or that he even existed?
    What version of Luohan Xing gong Duan Da mentions Wang Lang in the Song dynasty?
    The Wikipedia version. Northern Praying Mantis (martial art)

    # Name Technique Master
    1 Chang Quan Long-range Boxing Emperor Taizu
    2 Tongbei Through the Back Han Tong
    3 Chan Feng Wrap Around and Seal Zhang En
    4 Duanda Close-range Strikes Ma Ji
    5 Keshou Tongquan Blocking Hands and Following Through Fist Jin Xiang
    6 Gou Lou Cai Shou Hooking, Scooping and Grabbing Hands Liu Xing
    7 Zhanna Diefa Methods of Sticking, Grabbing, and Falling Yan Qing
    8 Duan Quan Short Boxing Wen Yuan
    9 Hou Quan Monkey Boxing Sun Heng
    10 Mien Quan Cotton Fist Mien Shen
    11 Shuailue Yingbeng Throwing-Grabbing and Hard Crashing Huai De
    12 Gunlou Guaner Ducking, Leaking and Passing through the Ears Tan Fang
    13 Yuanyang Jiao Mandarin ducks kicking technique Lin Chong
    14 Qishi Lianquan Seven Postures of Continuous Fist Strikes Meng Su
    15 Kunlu Zhenru Hand Binding and Grabbing Yang Gun
    16 Woli Paochui Explosive Strikes into the Hollow Body Parts Cui Lian
    17 Kao Shou Close Range Hand Techniques Huang You
    18 Tanglang Praying Mantis Wang Lang
    What places him in the Ming Dynasty?
    - 三和拳

    "Civilize the mind but make savage the body" Mao Tse Tsung

    "You're certainly intelligent enough to know how to be a good person without the lead weights of religious dogma." Serpent

    "There is no evidence that the zombie progeny of an incestuous space ghost cares what people do." MasterKiller

    "If there isn't a chance that you're going to lose in a fight, then you're not fighting tough enough competition." ShaolinTiger00

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis108 View Post

    It appears that there was a "style" of martial arts known as Lianquan (linked fist) practiced within the walls of the caravan escorts companies throughout the capital (Beijing) and Shandong Province.

    Mantis108
    Most traditional Chinese martial arts schools had 'lian quan - 練拳.' Typically in imperial times the names of martial arts schools includes: location, branch or family, clan and specific style. The term "Linked fist - lian quan - 練拳, is a shorten term for 'lian quan tao - 練拳套' or, 'lian quan jiao 練拳腳') is not a style but a term referring to 'sets' practice.
    Last edited by r.(shaolin); 08-09-2010 at 08:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r.(shaolin) View Post
    Most traditional Chinese martial arts schools had 'lian quan - 練拳.' Typically in imperial times the names of martial arts schools includes: location, branch or family, clan and specific style. The term "Linked fist - lian quan - 練拳, is a shorten term for 'lian quan tao - 練拳套' or, 'lian quan jiao 練拳腳') is not a style but a term referring to 'sets' practice.
    r.(shaolin),
    So are you saying that the term "lian quan" was used the same way we use the term "tao lu" today?

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    So are you saying that the term "lian quan" was used the same way we use the term "tao lu" today?

    Yes, "tao lu" is a shortened for the term 套路運動 tao lu yun dong.
    r.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r.(shaolin) View Post
    Yes, "tao lu" is a shortened for the term 套路運動 tao lu yun dong.
    r.
    Thank you for your quick reply!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SanHeChuan View Post
    Shen Xiao wrote or received a book called Luohan Xínggong Duan Da, published in 1794,
    I have several versions of this book, none of which mention any dates. I wonder where this date originally came from.

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