The All South East Asian Full Contact Fights from the late 50's, 60's and 70's.

[sanjuro_ronin]

YES Thanks!!! When the internal students go into the external classes and spar they get their a$$es kicked.....I'm working with them to turn the tables...a couple are starting to get it...I've got them wedging.

Here is another :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ1OOPdkiPs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jy9C...eature=related

[Baqualin]

the label "internal" was the worst thing to ever happen to those arts, because in practice their techniques are good striking and good grappling, but since they seldom train realistically anymore, much of it is being lost (or is lost totally)

I understand that, just using the universal label. I agree! In the 70's at my school we were taught that way... our push hands are all about strikes, sweeps,locks, kicks, throws, and some grappling....that's all I knew.......it has been really frustrating lately when I play hands with other Tai Chi players outside of our school and they tell me I'm not using real Tai Chi because I do all of the above. All they want to do is push and say if you push somebody down enough they will get frustrated and quit.....I'm thinking no, their going to get pi$$ed off and get up and kill you. I also tell them that pushing is fine until someone slaps the sh!t out of you, then what are you going to do. It's crazy.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Push hands, like Chi Sao in WC, is in many ways the main problem.

A drill that was used to develop a certain skill set or attribute(s) becomes the "end all" of a system in terms of functional training.
Just sad.

[lkfmdc]

Push hands, like Chi Sao in WC, is in many ways the main problem.

A drill that was used to develop a certain skill set or attribute(s) becomes the "end all" of a system in terms of functional training.
Just sad.

Told this a few times before

Guang Yi Ren is Chen Xiaowang's rep in NYC. We ar friends with one of his students. They have video tape of the push hands competitions they do at Chen village

IT IS WRESTLING

it is not the touchy feely no force crap you see over here

a US based "push hands champion" went to Chen village and asked to push, he was picked up in a body lock and thrown, he told them they weren't doing tai chi push hands

[Baqualin]

Here is another :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ1OOPdkiPs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jy9C...eature=related

Those are more familiar.....I've been practicing Chen for around 10 years now and it's my primary focus (or should I say my favorite) along with Baqua (30 years here). Not saying I'm good...it's just a big part of my life.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Told this a few times before

Guang Yi Ren is Chen Xiaowang's rep in NYC. We ar friends with one of his students. They have video tape of the push hands competitions they do at Chen village

IT IS WRESTLING

it is not the touchy feely no force crap you see over here

a US based "push hands champion" went to Chen village and asked to push, he was picked up in a body lock and thrown, he told them they weren't doing tai chi push hands

I agree that push hands SHOULD turn into clinch wrestling, I mean, why shouldn't it and how can it not in a functional way?

The problem is the lack of "aftermath" of "clinch wrestling" within taiji training (typically).

[sanjuro_ronin]

Those are more familiar.....I've been practicing Chen for around 10 years now and it's my primary focus (or should I say my favorite) along with Baqua (30 years here). Not saying I'm good...it's just a big part of my life.

Chen for 10 years too

[lkfmdc]

I agree that push hands SHOULD turn into clinch wrestling, I mean, why shouldn't it and how can it not in a functional way?

The problem is the lack of "aftermath" of "clinch wrestling" within taiji training (typically).

there is something to be said for throwing them down hard and running away (or stomping on their head)

I think in the grand scheme, ground work must be intergrated, but I can see where they are coming from

to me, much of Tai Chi is wrestling, we know wrestling works, but as a friend said to me recently "only the Chinese could take wrestling and make it a non functional TMA"

[Baqualin]

Told this a few times before

Guang Yi Ren is Chen Xiaowang's rep in NYC. We ar friends with one of his students. They have video tape of the push hands competitions they do at Chen village

IT IS WRESTLING

it is not the touchy feely no force crap you see over here

a US based "push hands champion" went to Chen village and asked to push, he was picked up in a body lock and thrown, he told them they weren't doing tai chi push hands

Two names I respect the most.....been to a Chen Xiaowang workshop and plan to attend more! he's awesome...no BS
Our school went to Chen village in 98 and a couple of our masters pushed with a couple of theirs...your right it was no patty cake...we left with a lot of mutual respect.

[Baqualin]

there is something to be said for throwing them down hard and running away (or stomping on their head)

I think in the grand scheme, ground work must be intergrated, but I can see where they are coming from

to me, much of Tai Chi is wrestling, we know wrestling works, but as a friend said to me recently "only the Chinese could take wrestling and make it a non functional TMA"

Sometimes I don't understand why people get so upset with you....yes you can be a D!ck...but you really call it like it is
BQ

[Baqualin]

Chen for 10 years too

Yeah I love it.....Tai Chi / Baqua / Hsingi / Iron Bone....that's all I do anymore, I figure that's all I need to keep me busy at my age. Really have a lot of respect for Dale & Dr. Painter Too.
BQ

[lkfmdc]

Sometimes I don't understand why people get so upset with you....yes you can be a D!ck...but you really call it like it is
BQ

one bolded answers the other

[jmd161]

Does anybody have any stories, info, footage, or winners lists from these tournaments held?
I have heard there were fights between different Kung Fu styles and even fights with Thai Boxers that were all full contact and got quite bloody at times.

I think Master Chan Sau Chung produced some fighters that won in those events.

Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Just so happens I spoke to my sifu about this subject, just last week. He said not as many fighters attended this event as you may think. He said yes there were some schools there and some Thai Boxers, but, not the level of experience you would expect to see at a event of that size.

He used an actor winning one yr as proof the competition was not the greatest in his opinion.

jeff

[lkfmdc]

He used an actor winning one yr as proof the competition was not the greatest in his opinion.

the "actor" he is talking about was a professional fighter in Asia, winning fights in Japan and Thailand as well, he became an actor AFTER being a fighter!

[jmd161]

the "actor" he is talking about was a professional fighter in Asia, winning fights in Japan and Thailand as well, he became an actor AFTER being a fighter!

I assume you're speaking of Chan Sau Chung's student?


jeff