How real traditional kung fu was taught?

[Drake]

Even if you fight and lose, you still come out more respected than if you never fought at all.

[jmd161]

If you are going to use percentages and claim it as fact, then you should make sure you have done the research. By saying 99% if the schools do it wrong, you make it seems like you think you are part of the 1% that does it right. Sure, we all think we have the real deal, and we all think we know the real stuff, but this type of arrogance is actually what is damaging the CMA.

Not trying to be arrogant, but, I do feel I'm part of the 1% doing things right. That 1% represents many, if not millions of people... there is no way to get an accurate count. I used a precentage, it's my opinion... it could be 99% of the schools I've witnessed, is that better?

San Shou can be taught separately without forms, and are still called CMA..

If you read my post? I did say it was also...

I have seen some “Traditional” that comes from Hong Kong and some parts of China that were just as bad, if not worse, than some of the stuff we find else where in the world. Its dangerous to assume that they had the right stuff back then (or there), where as we don’t have it now. Actually, its just plain foolish, and arrogant of you to even post such things.

You took what I said out of context...I didn't say the kung fu was any better or worst back then, infact, I didn't mention anything about skill level. What I said was in talking to oldtimer's from back then, they said that you learned self defense first, so you could fight, and then you learned forms.

Sure, your sifu is right, so that’s why MMA gyms are growing and most of the “Traditional” CMA schools are struggling to pay rent.

People should move away from this “Traditional” Vs “Modern way of thinking. We are living in 2009. Be serious!

How can we move away from it when the history of CMA, is what draws most people to it?

What has CMA proved lately?

Every forum I read all I see is flame wars and In family fighting and CMA artist being destroyed by other style/system artist.

We need to get back to the traditional and evolve our styles and stop all this inner family fighting. We need to start testing our stuff in as close to realstic conditions as we can find and disgard what doesn't work.

Hmmmm, sounds a lot like what my sifu preaches...

Hey Jeff, you should fly up and visit with me and Stanley one day!

Hey Dave, I'm planning on doing that, I've just been so busy relocating as you know the last 5 yrs. I'm back in Miami, so maybe I can finally unpack all my stuff and relax...lol

jeff

[Drake]

I also think a lot of people like the history and stories, and they like feeling as though they are part of a rich heritage and tradition. The US is a very new country, so you can only go back so far. You'll also find a lot of Americans identifying with other old cultures as well, as a way of being part of a long history of whatever.

TCMA isn't just about fighting, despite what it may have been in the past. For me, hand to hand combat is secondary anyway, as mastering my current weapons set would do me far more good on the modern battefield. You can't fu jau an M240B. In fact, an M240B would likely decimate any army of TCMA fighters out there, in a very VERY short period of time.

My point is, people get involved with this stuff for different reasons, and nobody has a right to tell them they are wrong in doing so.

[Eddie]

Every forum I read all I see is flame wars and In family fighting and CMA artist being destroyed by other style/system artist.
.....
We need to get back to the traditional and evolve our styles and stop all this inner family fighting. We need to start testing our stuff in as close to realstic conditions as we can find and disgard what doesn't work.

By claiming that 99% of the people do it wrong, one could say you are very much part of the problem, or should I rather say, the reason why there are flame wars on internet forums when ever people are talking about CMA. We as Chinese Martial Artists, are 'destroying' ourselves.

This is a big problem within the CMA (and even within Chinese culture in general), where it is far to easy to diss someone else’s ability, than to acknowledge his/ her actual skill.

If you do it right, instead of just making outragious claims on the net, why dont you tell us exactly what it is that you do right, instead of just saying we all do it wrong?

[Drake]

By claiming that 99% of the people do it wrong, one could say you are very much part of the problem, or should I rather say, the reason why there are flame wars on internet forums when ever people are talking about CMA. We as Chinese Martial Artists, are 'destroying' ourselves.

This is a big problem within the CMA (and even within Chinese culture in general), where it is far to easy to diss someone else’s ability, than to acknowledge his/ her actual skill.

If you do it right, instead of just making outragious claims on the net, why dont you tell us exactly what it is that you do right, instead of just saying we all do it wrong?

I acknowledge your skill, Sifu Eddie!

[lkfmdc]

the problem is there is no criteria or standards in TCMA

oh, you do "XYZ sytem" and it's famous so you are good

oh, you study under "Sum Ting Wong" so you are good

just because your system is famous and you come from a lineage of good fighters doesn't mean YOU are good

[jmd161]

By claiming that 99% of the people do it wrong, one could say you are very much part of the problem, or should I rather say, the reason why there are flame wars on internet forums when ever people are talking about CMA. We as Chinese Martial Artists, are 'destroying' ourselves.

This is a big problem within the CMA (and even within Chinese culture in general), where it is far to easy to diss someone else’s ability, than to acknowledge his/ her actual skill.

If you do it right, instead of just making outragious claims on the net, why dont you tell us exactly what it is that you do right, instead of just saying we all do it wrong?

If this is the case, you're doing that same thing you accuse me of now...You choose to argue with me over my post. I named somethings we need to do yet, you come right back to bicker about my post.

What are "YOU" doing to help CMA get back on track?


I want to get some discussion on how we can change things not bicker over spelling or other crap in a post.

Jeff

[Drake]

If this is the case, you're doing that same thing you accuse me of now...You choose to argue with me over my post. I named somethings we need to do yet, you come right back to bicker about my post.

What are "YOU" doing to help CMA get back on track?


I want to get some discussion on how we can change things not bicker over spelling or other crap in a post.

Jeff

How do you accuse 99% of other schools of doing things wrong, and then be unhappy when they take offense?

[Drake]

I'd say I read it as:

"Everyone else is doing it wrong (99% of you, anyway), and I want to figure out how to fix you."

[jmd161]

How do you accuse 99% of other schools of doing things wrong, and then be unhappy when they take offense?

People dwell on what they choose to dwell on. At the time of writing the post I had a lot of thoughts going through my mind. In hind sight I could have used other words and not a percentage, but, I never said this was fact. I should have known people would choose to harp on the percentage and not discuss what's at hand.

It's much easier to attack someone trying to discuss ways of fixing CMA's misuseage of percentages than it is to have actual discussions on fixing CMA.

I could have worded it differently can we get past that and try to address the issues that are making CMA a joke, and what we all can do as CMAist to change it?

Now of course someone will attack the fact that i used the word Joke behind CMA


jeff

[Drake]

By fix do you mean make it more like your style? What is meant by fix?

[jmd161]

By fix do you mean make it more like your style? What is meant by fix?

If you are training CMA or even familiar with CMA, I'm sure you can think of ways to fix CMA. I'm not telling anyone they have to use the approach we are using but, I think anyone with a bit of knowledge of CMA would agree it needs fixing.


jeff

[Drake]

If you are training CMA or even familiar with CMA, I'm sure you can think of ways to fix CMA. I'm not telling anyone they have to use the approach we are using but, I think anyone with a bit of knowledge of CMA would agree it needs fixing.


jeff

People study CMA for different reasons, so no, I can't think of any one-shot fix that would work. Not everyone goes into it wanting to be a championship fighter. Some just want to lose weight and be healthy, others just think it's fun. MA no longer works in the terms it was originally used for in many cases. You can't go to war with it, you can't rebel against the gov't with it, and it's probably not a good idea to try and get into a street fight with it.

[jmd161]

People study CMA for different reasons, so no, I can't think of any one-shot fix that would work. Not everyone goes into it wanting to be a championship fighter. Some just want to lose weight and be healthy, others just think it's fun. MA no longer works in the terms it was originally used for in many cases. You can't go to war with it, you can't rebel against the gov't with it, and it's probably not a good idea to try and get into a street fight with it.

I don't buy that...

Yes some people take it for health and some for something to do... but, even those people expect what they are learning to have some self defense usefulness. No we aren't trying to overthrow a Gov't but you still have to worry about protecting yourself in the streets.

Maybe you haven't noticed but people still get beaten up and attacked in the streets. Not all attacks are with guns or knives read the paper people still get beaten to death.

There are many gyms you can join for health most in look of health join them. Most join CMA schools because they want health and self defense, unless it's parents unloading their kids in the little tiger's course.

jeff

[Drake]

I don't buy that...

Yes some people take it for health and some for something to do... but, even those people expect what they are learning to have some self defense usefulness. No we aren't trying to overthrow a Gov't but you still have to worry about protecting yourself in the streets.

Maybe you haven't noticed but people still get beaten up and attacked in the streets. Not all attacks are with guns or knives read the paper people still get beaten to death.

There are many gyms you can join for health most in look of health join them. Most join CMA schools because they want health and self defense, unless it's parents unloading their kids in the little tiger's course.

jeff

All I've been reading about lately are shooting rampages. I also remember some article about a guy getting stabbed. I don't recall any recent articles where someone was hand to hand beaten to death.

Even if what you say is true, a person is normally not attacked by a single, unarmed person. Fighting multiple people (all unarmed) takes more than a couple sessions after work during the week.