OT: Gates' defense plans

[sanjuro_ronin]

unfortunately we do SJ. when sh*t goes wrong in the world, who does everyone look at to help? the USA.

Well, you tend to not be alone, though you do tend to send more and other countries that advantage of that and send less.
Now, lets be honest though, when you do get involved its not to FIGHT a war, and it shoudln't be, but to enforce peace and that, like I stated earlier, is a different ball of wax.

[Shaolinlueb]

Well, you tend to not be alone, though you do tend to send more and other countries that advantage of that and send less.
Now, lets be honest though, when you do get involved its not to FIGHT a war, and it shoudln't be, but to enforce peace and that, like I stated earlier, is a different ball of wax.

and i agree totally, keep the peace. but we americans love our guns

[BoulderDawg]

It's a LOT more than 200 dirty lunatics in a cave. And don't forget we have other things to deal with as well. NK, anyone?

Then just who exactly are we fighting? The only answer I get to that question is the "Terrorists" but, other than OBL, nobody seems to know exactly who these "Terorists" are.

In Iraqi, a place where we have been for six years, they tell us the "Terrorists" are running wild and there is still much work to do.......What terrorists? How did they get into the country? Who supplied them weapons?

[Shaolinlueb]

Then just who exactly are we fighting? The only answer I get to that question is the "Terrorists" but, other than OBL, nobody seems to know exactly who these "Terorists" are.

In Iraqi, a place where we have been for six years, they tell us the "Terrorists" are running wild and there is still much work to do.......What terrorists? How did they get into the country? Who supplied them weapons?

who supplied them with weapons? of thats easy. probably the usa indirectly.

[Drake]

It's all fun and games until someone starts driving planes into metropolitan areas. I'm still irritated about how the republicans blasted Clinton for taking action. We should've went in back then. Aspirin factory? In the middle of nowhere? C'MON.

It's even better how people are now downplaying what happened on 9/11. What, should we let them attack us again just to prove to the idiots that they are still a threat? Some people out there deserve it.

[David Jamieson]

who supplied them with weapons? of thats easy. probably the usa indirectly.

the weapons they are using aren't American for the most part.

as for who you are fighting? You don't know?

It has never been a standing army that's for sure.
It is a world wide network of large and small cells of radical islamic ideologues.
That's who we are fighting in Afghanistan and who the us and uk are fighting in iraq.

There are rogue states that must be brought under control in the near future or there will be not much of a future.

There are problems with some of the propaganda and lobby groups that seek to support war, but ultimately, radical Islam is a huge problem in the world right now.

for instance, think about this. Israel is a tiny speck of a country carved out of crappy desert on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean sea. the Israelis have turned as much of it into an oasis as possible and have really created an amazing country there.

They are surrounded by Arab nations, teeming with millions who have an Islamic superiority complex and produce the worst criminals on the planet as has been shown again and again and yet, people just can't stop talking about how the Jews are a problem. Because the Israelis have teeth they are a problem?

wtf?

[Drake]

In all due fairness, we did pump a ton of weaponry into Afghanistan during the 80s. But like Mr. Jamieson said, everything they are using now isn't American.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's all fun and games until someone starts driving planes into metropolitan areas. I'm still irritated about how the republicans blasted Clinton for taking action. We should've went in back then. Aspirin factory? In the middle of nowhere? C'MON.

It's even better how people are now downplaying what happened on 9/11. What, should we let them attack us again just to prove to the idiots that they are still a threat? Some people out there deserve it.

I don't know of anyone that ever downplayed 3000+ deaths.
That said, you guys could have done a better job at "payback".
Afghanistain was a "given", even though I don't agree on how it was done.
You guys should have gone after the funding not just the arming.
Should have gone after the shelters and the people protecting those groups, after the governments that funded them and fed into the hatred, all the while selling you the oil and taking your money to fund the very terrorists.
In short, you should have gone after ALL the responsibles, not just the ones that got the blame.

[David Jamieson]

In all due fairness, we did pump a ton of weaponry into Afghanistan during the 80s. But like Mr. Jamieson said, everything they are using now isn't American.

The 80's was a proxy war to keep russia from acquiring the afghan territories as their own. At the time, the proxy war was a necessity. Right now, it is still Russia who is an underlying problem and it is still russia who is distributing weapons to the cells directly or vis a vis proxy nations such as Iran, Syria, Pakistan or Egypt.

There are huge propaganda elements too. Hamas and Hezbollah being the largest groups of ideologically run outfits that constantly chant death to America and anything else that doesn't mete out to a worldwide Caliphate run under sharia law.

It's a freakin mess and in my opinion it needs and deserves our undivided attention, not only militarily but compassionately as well. We must begin the process of generational change from within those countries. It gets frustrating as heck at times and politics is played a little to often instead of letting the work get done.

It will be done though.
It has to be done.

We here need to stop loathing ourselves for taking these decisive actions. Iraq was an error only because of the lack of political will in the first place back in GW1. It is problem now because of a power vacuum and an entire nation that has never been ruled democratically, not to mention the sectarian issues coming from Iran through the shia population in Iraq and all that.

there's a lot of factors at play. I think the warmongers miss out on a lot of the details and the peaceniks are certainly missing out on a lot of the point. BUt neither of these groups are the ones who will bring real and lasting change to the region. Only the most objectivist thinking will bring it about and there's no room for radicals from our own or radicals from their own. It has to be done with sober minds and decisive action.

[Drake]

I don't know of anyone that ever downplayed 3000+ deaths.
That said, you guys could have done a better job at "payback".
Afghanistain was a "given", even though I don't agree on how it was done.
You guys should have gone after the funding not just the arming.
Should have gone after the shelters and the people protecting those groups, after the governments that funded them and fed into the hatred, all the while selling you the oil and taking your money to fund the very terrorists.
In short, you should have gone after ALL the responsibles, not just the ones that got the blame.

Well, the fact is, the US Army wasn't ready for unconventional warfare. All of our training up to that point was all about taking on a conventional enemy.

As for those funding them... they get theirs.