VTM Discussion\Black Flag Wing Chun

[Josexx]

After seeing the number of views jump a thousandfold for the new KFM Black Flag vid, all I know is I need to make me a Shaolin Black Flag Wing Chun video. Cheese and rice is it getting viewed.

more like vodka and gulliable views. everything about black flag is fake, right down to number of youtube views. black flag buys views, likes, ect. from this site. fake fake fake

http://buyfanstoday.com/youtube-views/buy-youtube-views
5000 views 99$
10,000 views 195$

[LoneTiger108]

Shaolin Black Flag Wing Chun

Shaolin Black Flag Wing Chun: Basic Movements
Shaolin Black Flag Wing Chun 18 Lohan Part 1 – Separate Drill
Shaolin Black Flag Wing Chun: 18 Lohan Part 2 - Basic Applications
Wing Chun 8 Slashing Sword (Pat Cham To)

See also The Treasure of Southern Shaolin By Benny Meng, Shaolin Special 2013

First of all... I thought I was the only crazed Wing Chun Flag waver around here, so this comes as a huge blow to my international business!! WAIT! They are called Black Flag, but DO NOT have any Flag Training??!!! I may be in the clear

Personally I have no issue with any individuals interpreting what they like from what they know and calling it whatever, but it get's a little boring when the 'truth' is shielded from the masses, even by the more commercial magazine publications who obviously service the money-makers in Martial Arts out there more-so than the smaller more personal groups. Mind you, this may be the way it all works in the USA.

We had the promise of an uprising in the UK but that has since dwindled and now, since Benny and his business partner are at least selling this as Lohan stuff, the HKB dudes are looking at another relaunch attempt here... but the close Chinese Martial Arts community here will not be fooled and there is already an undercurrent of speculation from some pretty knowledgable characters who will challenge what they see with specific questions and some may even want to cross hands too.

They may well have an audience of newbies and converts, but like other trends, it may simply just pass through with very little impact on the many Wing Chun families here that already have a hold on the commercial market.

[GeneChing]

the more commercial magazine publications who obviously service the money-makers in Martial Arts out there more-so than the smaller more personal groups.

Actually, the majority of our content services the 'smaller more personal groups'. We don't have that many outside advertisers, usually about half a dozen total. The bulk of our articles focus on smaller groups because let's face it, Kung Fu and Tai Chi are relatively small, at least in an economic sense. We're huge in the grassroots sense, but they generally don't advertise.

[Vajramusti]

Actually, the majority of our content services the 'smaller more personal groups'. We don't have that many outside advertisers, usually about half a dozen total. The bulk of our articles focus on smaller groups because let's face it, Kung Fu and Tai Chi are relatively small, at least in an economic sense. We're huge in the grassroots sense, but they generally don't advertise.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Yup. Gene has a huge task keeping the magazine alive in a difficult economy and market.
I read the Indian Martial art article and ignored the black flag.
Minimalist but supportive.

[LoneTiger108]

Actually, the majority of our content services the 'smaller more personal groups'.... The bulk of our articles focus on smaller groups because let's face it, Kung Fu and Tai Chi are relatively small, at least in an economic sense.

Nice to see you have this approach to your magazine... as many others do not especially here in the UK

[Josexx]

Personally I have no issue with any individuals interpreting what they like from what they know and calling it whatever, but it get's a little boring when the 'truth' is shielded from the masses, even by the more commercial magazine publications who obviously service the money-makers in Martial Arts out there more-so than the smaller more personal groups. Mind you, this may be the way it all works in the USA.

hey Lonetiger
i also read something interesting on this link http://vtmshaolinbull5hit.blogspot.com/
worldwide the truth is coming out.

[LoneTiger108]

hey Lonetiger
i also read something interesting on this link http://vtmshaolinbull5hit.blogspot.com/
worldwide the truth is coming out.

Wah! And I was trying to be diplomatic because I haven't bought a copy of the magazine in a while now but this blog really does stick it to these guys... I know there are always many sides to the same story, its what makes Wing Chun so diverse, so in cases like this I really don't know who to believe and if I'm honest, because I don't teach for profit, I don't care and have no business that will be affected.

[Josexx]

Man, oh man, why did you do this?
Nice dancing, nice hakka-style shaking movements, many taps on the same arm before hitting the opponent etc. Now it's clear that this black flag thing is the fakest wing chun around. Man, oh man...

After i read through all these public information about Kenneth Lin, I can understand his feeling towards the false black flag story. A lot of marketing talks about a big fictional story about its fake past, pushing its fake story in every way imaginable. whether its franchise, magazines, videos, gulliable students, the story is fictional. The fake stories changes constantly to fit the market, marketing names change, pedestals change, stories change. The attempt to spread the latest fictional story is to repeat the lies 1000 times in hopes it $ell$. But really what are the actual events, motives and questions to ask?

Where do the 5 flag fictional story come from?
It comes from one person, Kenneth Lin.

Where did Kenneth Lin's kung fu come from?
1.In Canada about 10 years ago people said Kenneth Lin's Wing Chun was immature, that he was more of Wing Chun fan.
2.Public information and Sifu Sergio research and 18 Lohan members point all in the same direction to Kenneth Lin's past..
Kenneth Lin's websites and internet activitys points in the same direction. Base on Kenneth Lin, himself on his old websites his teachers are Master Tio and Chung Che Man.
See Kenneth Lin give credit to his teachers, Master Tio and Chung Che Man here and another variation of the fake story.
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...engChunHistory
Chung Che Man who is 5th generation Ip Man teacher.

Whats the motive for the 5 flag fictional story?
Kenneth Lin's 18 Lohan teacher, Master Tio, said he help Kenneth Lin repackage 18 Lohan with a Wing Chun name because his student Kenneth Lin ask him to help with his failing business. Kenneth Lin told Master Tio the Wing Chun name is the way to go.

Later on Master Tio realized how serious he was tricking the whole martial art community with this fictional story. Master Tio felt like this was the biggest mistake of his life and had great regret. so he apologies in written statement and on video that 18 Lohan is not Wing Chun. This is the most screwed up story ever to ask your teacher to lie and ruin the his schools repetition.

Actually both of Kenneth Lin's teachers deny black flag wing chun. Master Tio says 18 Lohan is not Wing Chun. Inside Chung Che Man's Wing Chun family not one person said anything about black flag. Kenneth Lin is the only student of both teachers to say anything about black flag wing chun.

Another interesting part is when Sifu Sergio first met Kenneth Lin. Kenneth Lin told Sifu Sergio that Biu Jee was lost. So Kenneth Lin never learn the complete Wing Chun system from Chung Che Man. Sifu Sergio said Kenneth Lin's SLT look like modified Ip Man SLT.

Many parts of Kenneth Lin's fictional story changes to fit the market. Just recently he change names again from shaolin hkb kuntao to shaolin black flag wing chun. Nobody in there right mind can keep up a fictional story.

Kenneth Lin motive was the Wing Chun name to promote his failing business. Kenneth Lin did not learn the complete Wing Chun system from Chung Che Man and 18 Lohan is not Wing Chun. Both of Kenneth Lin’s teacher deny the black flag wing chun fictional story.

[anerlich]

Nobody in there right mind can keep up a fictional story.

There are a number of religions with billions of followers who show that statement to be false.

[PalmStriker]

There are a number of religions with billions of followers who show that statement to be false.

There's Gold in them thar Religions.

[dante-s]

After i read through all these public information about Kenneth Lin, I can understand his feeling towards the false black flag story. A lot of marketing talks about a big fictional story about its fake past, pushing its fake story in every way imaginable. whether its franchise, magazines, videos, gulliable students, the story is fictional. The fake stories changes constantly to fit the market, marketing names change, pedestals change, stories change. The attempt to spread the latest fictional story is to repeat the lies 1000 times in hopes it $ell$. But really what are the actual events, motives and questions to ask?

Where do the 5 flag fictional story come from?
It comes from one person, Kenneth Lin.

Where did Kenneth Lin's kung fu come from?
1.In Canada about 10 years ago people said Kenneth Lin's Wing Chun was immature, that he was more of Wing Chun fan.
2.Public information and Sifu Sergio research and 18 Lohan members point all in the same direction to Kenneth Lin's past..
Kenneth Lin's websites and internet activitys points in the same direction. Base on Kenneth Lin, himself on his old websites his teachers are Master Tio and Chung Che Man.
See Kenneth Lin give credit to his teachers, Master Tio and Chung Che Man here and another variation of the fake story.
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...engChunHistory
Chung Che Man who is 5th generation Ip Man teacher.

Whats the motive for the 5 flag fictional story?
Kenneth Lin's 18 Lohan teacher, Master Tio, said he help Kenneth Lin repackage 18 Lohan with a Wing Chun name because his student Kenneth Lin ask him to help with his failing business. Kenneth Lin told Master Tio the Wing Chun name is the way to go.

Later on Master Tio realized how serious he was tricking the whole martial art community with this fictional story. Master Tio felt like this was the biggest mistake of his life and had great regret. so he apologies in written statement and on video that 18 Lohan is not Wing Chun. This is the most screwed up story ever to ask your teacher to lie and ruin the his schools repetition.

Actually both of Kenneth Lin's teachers deny black flag wing chun. Master Tio says 18 Lohan is not Wing Chun. Inside Chung Che Man's Wing Chun family not one person said anything about black flag. Kenneth Lin is the only student of both teachers to say anything about black flag wing chun.

Another interesting part is when Sifu Sergio first met Kenneth Lin. Kenneth Lin told Sifu Sergio that Biu Jee was lost. So Kenneth Lin never learn the complete Wing Chun system from Chung Che Man. Sifu Sergio said Kenneth Lin's SLT look like modified Ip Man SLT.

Many parts of Kenneth Lin's fictional story changes to fit the market. Just recently he change names again from shaolin hkb kuntao to shaolin black flag wing chun. Nobody in there right mind can keep up a fictional story.

Kenneth Lin motive was the Wing Chun name to promote his failing business. Kenneth Lin did not learn the complete Wing Chun system from Chung Che Man and 18 Lohan is not Wing Chun. Both of Kenneth Lin’s teacher deny the black flag wing chun fictional story.

Josexx, i find ur post over on FB. I think you are few who can answer regard this Lim guy. To changing Chinese history as you share link from WC pedia, this guy make up his own story of history. Ur link showing this is fact now. My queston to u sir, if reason why is for save business why chose to make up history? I follow ur explaining to use Ving Tsun name to making new image but i don't see why also he make up new history 4 that same reason. I do tho see a photo on FB that may be real reason why this Lim guy do try to change history. What do you think about this photo from FB showing Lim comment?

[dante-s]

Here is the link to the FB page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Planet...55251561276573

[dante-s]

Josexx provide a clear picture of this guy.

Kenneth Lin’s kung fu experience is not check out to achieve grandmaster level. Just 10 year ago in Canada people who met Lin report that Lin,s kung fu was very young & green they say he more like a Wing Chun fanboy , & Sergio done his own research finding there is no Cham Kiu no Biu Tze in hkb & interview Lin’s teacher who reveal truth its all a lie from his sifu own mouth. This video show use harsh word but also show what is problem for Lin contradict his teacher now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGe1Y...e_gdata_player

How to defend against whatcannot be defend? Only ignore it hoping people forget over time I guess. If honest mistake in research very easay to fix, just to confess truth. If not easy fix then what is that say?

Lin’s two teachers don’t add up to support Lin’s Black Flag story Sergio research find out Master Tio never learn or teach Wing Chun n I found Chung Che Man is from Ip Man ‘Vikoga’ Wing Chun none of those guy ever say anything about Black Flag. Lin sihing say that Lin only spend about 10 month with Master Tio learning Saam Chien & 18 Luohan hands at that time Lin only just a kid age. No Wing Chun there just few only 4 form not all 44 of 18 luohan hands. Is that reason Lin going online to find more kung fu video & photos? I think so. Other website found his posts from other sites before Lin delete all those things.

Lin’s make up story of 5 Wing Chun Flag from Shoalin also not check out. You can see on WCPedia the fake story Lin trying to spread into the world he is one copyright on bottom of page too.

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...engChunHistory

His kung fu background expose now contradict his story today & 5 Wing Chun Flag story also incorrect. Red Boat is not Red Flag Ip Man is not red Flag there is no such thing as Red Flag or Black any color flag Wing Chun.

[LoneTiger108]

http://youtu.be/IZ_eb-eHzAU

[dante-s]

I copy this from FB some incredible blackmail going on with Kenneth Lin Scandal. Insider info come out this weekend. This is most unbelievable character and toxic to martial arts.

I have read more about this Black Flag Wing Chun stuff online I can tell you I am very shocked to see the story that has been made up. Concerning this so called 5 flags Shaolin nonsense, I ask myself “if my Sitaigung Ip Man were alive today what would he have to say about it?” How would he react I think he would turn over in his grave! I think he would literally kick this Lim/Salim’s ass, and my Sigung Ip Chun actually calls this Meng guy “a CRAZY boy doing stupid things who lost his sense of dignity.” Sigung Ip Chun does not support the Ving Tsun Museum, and he even told me of the time Benny's teacher Moy Yat had his stone carved Kuen Kuit chops physically removed from the VTM in Ohio. I think that says a lot.

I write to share some information with you PV-WT. Tho I recently join the FB site, I have been in contact with one of Kenneth Lim/Salim’s sihing when I visited Indonesia. He shared with me a lot of inside information but he wishes to stay anonymous. So I must respect that. He trained under Sifu Tio Te Kwie along w/about ten other guys. Kenneth Lim was also one of them. They criticized Lim that he was only there for less than year training just “here and there” he told me. They all said he didn’t have much skill but now Lim/Salim calls himself a grandmaster! How can less than one yr training in 18 Lohan mix with Chung Che Man’s Ving Tsun style get him to grandmaster level? That defy all logic.

Anyway his sihing who told me many things about Lim. This fraud used their HKB Lohan to create his own thing and become somebody big like David Copperfield. When Lim/Salim was posting in the Indonesia forums online, he use the name Saam Chien, I know because I was there online too. Lim/Salim was searching a lot for more things to learn for his gung fu. Video, photo, you name it. It is ironic he told people online he is from Sifu Tio but also criticized his Sifu Tio telling people Tio has very limited knowledge. Does that make any sense to you? Lim’s sihing was set off and visibly angry after he read about all of Lim’s activity and lies. I could see he was real when he told me these things.

He told me how Lin would fantasize about becoming like Benny Meng after seeing Meng in a magazine. Lim wanted to show off his ego like Meng. He idolized him and studied and copied everything from Meng’s video collections! That is really a laughing joke and one messed up story but true. What is more ironic is Lim/Salim made Benny Meng HIS student! Lim came up with plan to make a lot of $$$ and to send back $ to the HKB group, but that never happened. Lim just lied to them. Instead he sees Lim intentionally marked Benny Meng as his target from the start. Now that he has seen Lim’s dirty work was that Lim made up the 5 Flag story and coached his Sifu Tio into helping to sell the story to VTM. Sifu Tio originally agreed in order to help Lim be successful. Lim/Salim sought to deceive Meng from the very start. This was Lim’s original plan.

In order to convince Benny Meng and Sergio Ialadora about Black Flag, Kenneth Lim flew to Indonesia a few days before Meng and Sergio arrived. He showed one of the elders his version of Siu Lin Tau so that the elder can demo it in front of BM and SI. This was how Lim planned to trick them! Then after they saw the old man demo the form, Lim went to another room and Sergio asked the man about Chum Kiu. The old man was a bit confused but pulled out a paper and told Sergio that Lim asked him to do Siu Lin Tau. We know that created doubt in Sergio mind. All a part of Lim’s deception to trick Meng and Sergio, but Sergio did not buy into it like Meng did. I found out Sergio went back with a few of his students to Indonesia in secret for a second time to find out the truth! Sergio asked about all the public attacks and backlash against Black Flag and Tio. Sifu Tio realized he made a mistake against the gung fu community and told Sergio the truth. Sifu Tio felt it was only right to tell the truth after seeing how the community reacted. You posted the video on your page too.

Lim/Salim’s sihing then told me most bothersome story even I am disgusted by this. That the teacher has two children that went to America illegally a son and daughter if I remember right. And the son was going to go to visit Meng directly and tell him the truth about what is behind Black Flag. Well Lim found out the son’s plan and became so frightened he threatened the son telling him if he dare go to speak with Meng he will tell immigration about him and have him deported! That part is so shocking and shameful! This Lim guy have no ethics and no morals.

After Sifu Tio issued the public apology video, Lim totally disrespected Tio and threatened him too all after Tio was trying to help him. Lim’s sihing is totally disgusted by Kenneth Lim/Salim and his lies. I thought this was just a simple meeting with Lim’s sihing on my last vacation. Instead it’s the most shocking story what I personally found out about this character Kenneth Lim from the source. Yes, all this public information regarding to the false history of five flag Ving Tsun was intentionally made up by one man to deceive the whole martial arts community for the purpose of cheating gullible students for their money. It’s a shameful act! Kenneth Lim shows no respect to the martial art community and insults everyone intelligence. Thumbs down to this cheater Lim. People might say “who cares, this dude Lin just want to make $ and be happy.” Surely it’s getting better pay than when Lim used to working in McDonald’s flipping burgers, but what’s really the story here? Now, Lin’s sihing told me about Lin’s original plan. Kenneth Lim is a scandalous joke, a fake, the number one liar, liar to 18 Lohan Hands and HKB, liar to the Ving Tsun community, for his fantasy to become like Benny Meng a fake gung fu master on some stupid MA magazine and a low life gold digger.

You have many things on your site about Lim’s Black Flag evil scandal. So I reach out to you to help share the message from HKB in Indonesia. This seem like the right place thank you. Please share with your friends.

Raymond

You can find it and more things from here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Planet...55251561276573