If you had a student or your kung fu sibling

[taai gihk yahn]

I understand the issues with opposing teams in Chinatown. (I also was involved in a few dabacles which almost escalated into all out war-ah,,the good ol days)Normally, that does not occur these days, as they now assign specific routes as well as an officer to each team. Nowadays, if one guy refuses passage to another team, the fur no longer flies, they revoke their permits and send them home.

obviously doing LD at local malls, restaurants, schools etc. does not incur the kind of risk a full-fledged C-town episode would (heck, in your neighborhood, it's probably worse just walking down the street w/the wrong color shirt on; BTW, did you hear about the recent gang-related stabbing at Hunt. HS? I missed walking right into the middle of it by literally 30 seconds, LOL - but I did get to see the custodian mopping up the blood...); personally, I think that, as a cultural artifact, LD is great, and many public / private schools have it as part of a Chinese New Years cultural unit;

It is always made clear to students applying for membership that Lion Dance is part of the curriculum, and that participation-in any way they feel comfortable, so long as they contribute, (heck, they can hand out lai-see fung to the diners) is mandatory.

as long as that is put out up front, then that's obviously cool; personally, I think it still should be purely voluntary, but if one is looking for a more "traditional" school, one would probably feel inclined to go along with it as a requirement anyway

[KC Elbows]

Also, a large percentage of our school is Chinese, and they come to this school for this very reason.

Exactly why it works, you do have the necessary ingredients.

But, the poster above, whose student you called cancer, is his situation at all the same? Maybe you are not aware of this, but there are some Chinese sifus who enforce Confucianism on everyone but themselves, because they conveniently don't teach Chinese people(or Chinese people don't train with them), and so the people who those sifus respect never hear the truth about them. Also, there are some trying to run traditional schools without realizing that the student base being from a different culture makes the tradition impossible to achieve without negotiation, which can cause much annoyance for teacher and student alike until equilibrium is met.

[KC Elbows]

as long as that is put out up front, then that's obviously cool; personally, I think it still should be purely voluntary,

Keep in mind, if his students are mostly Chinese, in the case of a Chinese New Year's deal, their family is probably going to see them. They are providing a taste of home for a lot of people, so there's a whole different level of motivation to do it and experience in doing it.

[TenTigers]

KC, I understand your situation. Students contribute in many ways to the school. Some who cannot Lion Dance, contribute in other ways. Some students contribute by setting an example, or by helping in other ways. Their presence is always felt and appreciated, and their time constraints or other limitations are understood.
I mean, let's not get crazy about it.
I was referring to people who are selfish,spoiled and self-centered. We've all met them, and we all know how their presence is felt in the school.
It's not really an issue, as those types usually weed themselves out naturally.

[TenTigers]

obviously doing LD at local malls, restaurants, schools etc. does not incur the kind of risk a full-fledged C-town episode would (

Are you kidding? We almost got killed in an altercation between Gap Kids and OshKosh B'Gosh. There were diapers flying all over the place.
Then the bigger kids with the pullups walked in and leveled the place.
It was a milkbath.

[Old Noob]

Exactly why it works, you do have the necessary ingredients.

But, the poster above, whose student you called cancer, is his situation at all the same? Maybe you are not aware of this, but there are some Chinese sifus who enforce Confucianism on everyone but themselves, because they conveniently don't teach Chinese people(or Chinese people don't train with them), and so the people who those sifus respect never hear the truth about them. Also, there are some trying to run traditional schools without realizing that the student base being from a different culture makes the tradition impossible to achieve without negotiation, which can cause much annoyance for teacher and student alike until equilibrium is met.

I think Elbow's comments have been right on. When I made my post, I didn't really understand that this mindset was Confucian but reading his comments have provided some context.

We don't do lion dancing at my school but my Sifu definitely preaches giving back to the school. Still, he never requires it as a condition of receiving that for which we have paid. Rather, he sets such a good example by volunteering in the community and by giving time to his students that we don't pay for (he says he won't do make-up tests and has a private lesson fee but almost always gives extra time to students outside of class without the charges). Consequently, when he asks us to do a demonstration or to come to a seminar, I go if it's at all possible. Though not technically Confucian, he's appealed to the more modern values of leading by example and by doing good turns to us. That makes us want to return the favor. The fact that he's so earnestly interested in his art gives his students a feeling that they're getting value over what they are paying also helps.

If any of this makes sense...

[TenTigers]

makes perfect sense. That is what I try to accomplish in my own school. I am always giving time to students who need it, and I do alot of community service.(and will continue to do so even after my probation is up! ) I try to set the example for my students. You sure you're not in my school? LOL

[lkfmdc]

this isn't China, most of us aren't Chinese and a lot of the Chinese are AMERICAN Chinese....

this reminds me of being told I couldn't go to a tournament because I belong to a federation. I remember saying "I never joined this federation" and being told I had to because it was a requirement of all kung fu schools in the area

Then I was supposed to pay a fine, because as a member of a federation I had no choice in joining, I had to listen to decisions I had no part in making

I told them NO and they seemed confused

[taai gihk yahn]

Are you kidding? We almost got killed in an altercation between Gap Kids and OshKosh B'Gosh. There were diapers flying all over the place.
Then the bigger kids with the pullups walked in and leveled the place.
It was a milkbath.

LOL; of course, if you do go to the Westfield mall, and you have a colored bandanna hanging out of your rear pocket, well...

[David Jamieson]

LOL; of course, if you do go to the Westfield mall, and you have a colored bandanna hanging out of your rear pocket, well...

Why am I getting pictures of Al Pacino in Cruising flashing in my mind? lol

[TenTigers]

Why am I getting pictures of Al Pacino in Cruising flashing in my mind? lol

funny "Cruising," story; when this movie first came out, it was in the late 70's, and I was in art school in NYC. Since there were many people protesting it, and rumors that it would be banned, my friend and I had to go see it. The school "uniform" at that time (hip art school, punk rock era) was black leather jacket,black t-shirt and jeans and black construction/loggers boots, Doc Martins,Army boots, etc. Little did we realize, that it was the identical "uniform" of the leather s&m crowd depicted in the movie! When the film ended and the lights came on, there we were, sitting together, getting looks, stares, giggles, and whispers from the people as they left-dispite our macho "harumph-uh, yeah. How bout them Yankees?" convo.
We promptly left.

[Yum Cha]

We are not a commercial school. We are also one of the few schools privileged to have an opportunity to dance in Sydney Chinatown at festival time. Lion dancing makes a bit of cash for the Sifu, and that flows to the club in meals, uniforms, etc.

It also provides an important bonding exercise, and a significant social activity.

But most importantly, our lion dancing presents the school and the master to the Chinese community in a good light, with all the respect and face that that involves.

We are a traditional school, and we follow the traditions. Students are informed up front that this is a required activity, and it is one of the things that binds us together.

To each their own, but this is our way.

[Violent Designs]

i guess lion dance is a southern thing
wel if u really wanna keep all the traditions whay not build a square platfarm and ask pepple to come up to fight u, why pick and choose the traditions, right

lion dances up north were perform by people that just learn to . . . lion dance, they were not martial artists.

As far as I know anyway.

[WinterPalm]

Lion Dance is fun...but if someone doesn't want to do it, ask someone else...there, end of story.
And why is it that so many Kung Fu schools can't even teach you to fight properly, or turn out good fighters, but yet expect you to dedicate your time to dancing at a banquet? I think most people are of the opinion that they joined the school to learn martial arts, not to dance...and if you want to, that's fine, but it's not for everybody and the focus should never waver from the fact that it is martial arts, and if the focus has shifted, it should return to applicable realistic fighting skills.