Originally Posted by t_niehoff
For better understanding of what you mean, what are these 'same fundamentals' all functional martial arts take?
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For better understanding of what you mean, what are these 'same fundamentals' all functional martial arts take?
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For better understanding, go train some functional martial arts.
Wing Chun Fighter
Besides Brazilian Jiujitsu and Muay Thai what are some other Functional Martial Arts to you????
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A functional martial art is one with functional training methods (the sport model essentially). Some arts, like judo, sambo, wrestling, boxing, savate, kickboxing, etc. have embraced that training approach.
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Still didn't answer the question: What are these 'same fundamentals' all functional martial arts take? You said it, not me.
FWIW, there's no such thing as functional/non-functional MA's. (maybe training methods, but not the arts themselves)
A persons ability to demonstrate skill created by training in a given MA is what is functional or non-functional - not the art itself. If a karate guy beat an MMA guy, would it be said that Karate was more functional, or the fighter's abilities given the circumstances?
Banned
I did give you an answer -- I said you need to go practice and/or train with some functional martial artists. If you do that, you'll see what I'm talking about. If you don't do it, you'll never know. You wanted a "better understanding" of what I was talking about. Understanding only comes from experience.
You are, not surprisingly, confused. You are confusing (among other things) training methodology with the fighting approach itself.FWIW, there's no such thing as functional/non-functional MA's. (maybe training methods, but not the arts themselves)
A persons ability to demonstrate skill created by training in a given MA is what is functional or non-functional - not the art itself. If a karate guy beat an MMA guy, would it be said that Karate was more functional, or the fighter's abilities given the circumstances?
Functional martial arts are those arts which have adopted sport-specific training methods: they do in practice/training those things they will do in fighting as they will do them (same context, same resistances, etc). In other words, their practice "looks" just like their target activity -- since they are practicing their target activity. This training approach has (over the past 100 years) proved itself to be vastly superior to the traditional martial art training model.
While the training method and the fighting approach are two separate things (you could, for instance, train western boxing like a TMA), the training method will affect the art. Sport specific (functional) training will weed out inferior technique and only those things that continue to work under realistic conditions will be retained or developed. Whereas the TMA training model doesn't do this and promotes fantasy.
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im sure your karate sensei told you to relax (i trained in karate too), but the emphasis and training i guarantee is not to the extent of WC.
the WC and Tai Chi emphasis on relaxation vs karate is quite different
you know how you can tell? look at any boxing match today. watch any UFC fight. they are all very tense
im not saying this or that is not effective, im just pointing out a difference
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the sad thing is that t_niehoff really believes he has a supreme understanding of it all.
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sadder, he's so full of himself (and BS) he can't answer a straight fwd question.
Banned
I don't know about "supreme understanding" but I am smart enough to learn from people who do know what they are talking about -- people who really train fighters, people who really have developed good fighting skills, etc. And I'm smart enough to know who NOT to listen to -- people who give themselves "titles" but can't do it, people who believe they "know" WCK but couldn't beat low level fighters, etc.
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What you are talking about with "emphasis on relaxation" is the emphasis in "practice" by people who can't fight worth beans.
UFC fighters and boxers are not tense. You can't perform any athletic activity at any significant level being tense. And UFC fighters perform at high levels of athleticism. That you believe they "look" tense only indicates to me that you have never really fought, and so don't know what it really entails (although I'm sure you believe in theory how it should look). I'm not talking about what most people call "sparring", which is essentially playfighting at low-to-moderate intensity. I'm talking about fighting, where your opponent is going 100% all out trying to knock you out, take you down, smash you, submit you, etc. Regardless of your"style" when that happens, it will "look" like MMA.
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I answered your question. The problem is you are so used to being spoon fed theoretical nonsense, that you have come to believe this is how questions are answered.
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no thats not
their level of tenseness is subjective. to you they are sufficiently relaxed. IME, they are not.
you keep saying that everything will look like MMA. if we are talking about standup fighting, then that translates to "every standup fighter will end up looking like a boxer or kickboxer". this is ridiculous. obviously you live in the MMA world and can't look outside.
from your opinions on sparring vs all out fighting i can tell the way that you train. you think that by going into a ring with pads and gloves and then having two people try to knock each other's heads off is the ultimate in training. i wouldnt be surprised if you are a decent fighter. anyone who trains like that consistently will be able to stand toe to toe against most average people. im sure you could win through the use of brute strength and toughness.
but if you ever want to excel past being 'raging bull', then you will have to change your thinking.
i see in your posts you often claim that you are a fighter with lots of experience...and then you also claim that every other poster who disagrees with you is a fighter with no experience who trains with other inexperienced people.
you use this as a tactic to try to bolster your own credibility and to also diminish others opinions. yoshiyahu's posts revealed you as a fraud.
im sure you will claim i have no experience fighting.
Banned
It's not subjective at all. The whole tenseness-relaxation "issue" is really nonsense. It's not a matter of tenseness or relaxation; it is, rather, a matter of familiarity. When you see good, successful athletes doing something, they are doing it "correctly". And you can't do it successfully if you are too tense or too relaxed.
People can do and get away with all kinds of crap against scrubs. But beating a scrub is like beating on a ten year old -- it's not really a fight. A fight is where you are both going 100% and you are being hard-pressed (which you don't get from a scrub or a ten year old). Will charging in with chain punching work against scrubs and ten years olds? Sure. Go try it out at a muay thai gym or a MMA gym or a boxing gym where they will fight you.you keep saying that everything will look like MMA. if we are talking about standup fighting, then that translates to "every standup fighter will end up looking like a boxer or kickboxer". this is ridiculous. obviously you live in the MMA world and can't look outside.
When you are really hard-pressed, the fight will look like MMA. If you don't believe me, go fight with some competent fighters and you'll see.
If you want to develop fighting skill, you need to train like a fighter. To do that, look at how good PROVEN fighters train. They all train the same way, just modified to suit their own discipline. That way is the functional, sport-specific model of training (where your training looks like your fighting). They make sparring the core -- not necessarily what they spend the most time doing, however -- of their training. Why? Because you train most effectively by practicing what you are trying to develop (doing it as you are really going to do it). You don't develop fighting skills by not fighting.from your opinions on sparring vs all out fighting i can tell the way that you train. you think that by going into a ring with pads and gloves and then having two people try to knock each other's heads off is the ultimate in training. i wouldnt be surprised if you are a decent fighter. anyone who trains like that consistently will be able to stand toe to toe against most average people. im sure you could win through the use of brute strength and toughness.
but if you ever want to excel past being 'raging bull', then you will have to change your thinking.
That has nothing to do with being a"raging bull" or standing toe-to-toe. You don't develop fighting skill outside of fighting.
I hear lots of opinions on this forum about WCK and how things should be done. What I don't hear are people saying they are doing them against competent fighters. For example, I hear some people say WCK works on the ground. What I don't hear -- or see -- is about how they have gone to a mma school or bjj school and were able to make their WCK work. People will say that they block and strike at the same time. Well, we never hear of these people saying they do that at a boxing gym or a mma gym or a muay thai gym. See where I'm going?i see in your posts you often claim that you are a fighter with lots of experience...and then you also claim that every other poster who disagrees with you is a fighter with no experience who trains with other inexperienced people.
you use this as a tactic to try to bolster your own credibility and to also diminish others opinions. yoshiyahu's posts revealed you as a fraud.
im sure you will claim i have no experience fighting.
I point this out not to bolster my credibiltiy -- and credibility shouldn't be an issue since you should never take ANYONE'S word for anything -- but to point out that most people have beliefs not based on solid evidence or reasoning supported by solid evidence but on theory and hearsay and stories. My constant refrain has been to go see for yourself.
As far as yoshiyahu is concerned, I know much, much more about him, his sifu, his group, etc. than you do. I didn't like the way he "approached" me, I didn't like the tactics he used in our off-forum discussions, and the things he said only reinforced my views of his whole group -- a group that I REALLY don't want to have anything to do with. Because of all that, I tried to blowhim off. How you interpret that I don't really care.
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No, you dodged it like every other time people ask you to go into any detail regarding what you spew out here. Then you tried to make it about me, again trying to hide the fact you really don't have an answer?
In attempt to further productive conersation, I'll ask it a third time. What specifically are these 'same fundamentals' all functional martial arts take? The ones you mentioned here.
I assume you speak from at least some experience of your own. Since you brought it up, you should be able to give at least one example. So far, you haven't given any - it's really a simple question.
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