Combaton: Martial Arts crossed with Football...

[Lucas]

they need to combine martial arts and golf is what they need to do.

[GeneChing]

...posted on the forum already - golf club form.

[KC Elbows]

AdrianK - wether or not it takers skill to coach a game well is not the point. It can take incredible skill and talent to do something very, very stupid.

It is not because of the 'depth of strategies' that people watch these games. They watch them because they grew up with them, are nostalgic for them and have the 'ideas' of the game infecting the popular culture.

LaCrosse is just as complicated and requires just as much strategy as baseball - yet it is not popular and does not pay millions for coaches.

I already proved the regional aspect.

Just because you don't like to watch 'TKD ball' because it is 'stupid'. doesn't mean others don't look at baseball, basketball or football and think they are equally stupid. Which they are

Precisely.

Much as I occasionally enjoy going to a ball game at a nice stadium, baseball is ridiculous. And my batting coach as a kid was a former major league batting coach. And it's still ridiculous. For the most part, surviving the line to the bathroom in most stadiums requires more athleticism than most of the players will use most of the game, and the team aspect of it is much weaker than football or soccer.

Football, well, exactly why call it that when the only guy whose foot touches the ball is in the game for approximately twenty seconds each game?

Honestly, I'm sure that some kid playing at a Mario Kart tournament has way more skill than I, he may even make some money at it, but that doesn't make it a serious endeavor.

[AdrianK]

No, they are stupid. It doesn't matter how complicated the strategies get to win the game, it's only a game - and games are constructs.

No, they're not "stupid". They're games. As such, they are as "stupid" as chess or halo 3 or jeopardy. These games in particular are great at teaching good work ethic, how to work as a team, strategic thinking, innovation and decent physical conditioning.

I'm sure you LOVE the 'sports' you grew up with.

I grew up playing and watching football, basketball, baseball, hockey and nascar. Do you know what I watch today? The occasional rugby game, and boxing. I've actually never cared for the others. They bore the crap out of me. But I still have respect for what they are and why they are there versus any other game.

But there is nothing inherently better about one sport versus the other than personal preference and your environment.

That shows such a clear lack of understanding of any game. Yes, there are major differences which make one sport or "Game" in this instance, better than the other. Tic Tac Toe versus Chess, for instance. The number of possible outcomes in Tic Tac Toe is so few that you can play the game based on memorization instead of any kind of strategy, understanding of your opponent, or anything.

In this way, Football, Basketball, Baseball, Hockey and most major sports in general rely on a logical set of rules that promote teamwork, strategy, innovation, technical ability, physical ability and heart.

In latin america you'll here how soccer is 'better', in the US 'football' - in Canada they say 'balls? we don't need no balls, HOCKEY is a man's sport.'

We're not talking about what sport is the best though. We're talking about how different taekwondo football which has a bunch of random kicking and no apparent strategy, is worlds different from sports like football, basketball, etc.

And while they are all fun, they are by nature just stupid if you are not into the construct of the game. Really. Describe them objectively without your emotions or knowledge of the game. I dare you.

They may be uninteresting, but "Stupid" is a word that doesn't fit.

And describing them objectively without knowledge of the game? That doesn't even make sense. Go describe your face without knowledge of your face. What the **** does that even mean???

It is not because of the 'depth of strategies' that people watch these games. They watch them because they grew up with them, are nostalgic for them and have the 'ideas' of the game infecting the popular culture.

They watch them because they're constantly interesting to them. Even though I don't like basketball, there are a few times here and there i've caught a game and seen something incredible done by lebron james or kobe bryant, just to name two people who everyone knows. Or when a team makes a play at the very end of a tied game in the last 30 seconds, to catch the win. And it makes the game interesting when the strategies and teamwork really come out, if you understand the game to begin with.

LaCrosse is just as complicated and requires just as much strategy as baseball - yet it is not popular and does not pay millions for coaches.

I'm not saying every single great sport is going to be incredibly popular. Oscar Delahoya is a good boxer, but he's not the best boxer, yet he gets the most money out of any boxer. BUT even though he's not the best, if he didn't have something special, he wouldn't be as popular. That being said, there are plenty of boxers who are great right now, and aren't anywhere near as popular.

The point is, there is something unique about these games besides people just growing up with them. Yes, that has an effect, but its not even close to the only reason so many people watch them.

sport is popular because people give it buy in. Otherwise, it doesn't carry a lot of value to the progression of the human race as a species. lol

Not true at all.
Chess doesn't give a lot of value to the progression of the human species then.
Some people play chess, some people play sports, some people play both. And yeah, quite a few people who play sports are incredibly stupid, but quite a few people who play chess are incredibly stupid in different ways.

Complex, logical games like our major sports, or even games like chess, help us develop in quite a lot of ways.

Yes they can serve as that, but often they don't and can also often induce aggressive behaviours.

Competition can induce aggressive behaviors, in general.
But competition is also what allows us to test ourselves against others, and better ourselves in general. It gets us ready for the REAL WORLD which is EXTREMELY competitive.

team sports encourage group think and mob mentality.

All groups encourage group think and mob mentality. Cliques encourage it, friends encourage it - Playing team sports can actually teach you how to think on your own, and act as a team.

as an aside, I guess it's obvious I don't care much for them. lol

Oh not at all, your bias doesn't show through here at all.

Football, well, exactly why call it that when the only guy whose foot touches the ball is in the game for approximately twenty seconds each game?

Wow, your criticism of football was so well thought out, it just makes so much sense how ridiculous of a game is, based on its name not fitting precisely what it is

[KC Elbows]

Wow, your criticism of football was so well thought out, it just makes so much sense how ridiculous of a game is, based on its name not fitting precisely what it is

Not fitting remotely, but there are other reasons football is silly. Fun, but silly. Why so serious on the defense of it all?

[brothernumber9]

sounds like a few are bitter about not making an elementary or highschool team in their day, or perhaps picked last in physical education class. To inject some philosophical point of view on how stupid sports are is just as stupid as such a person perceives those sports to be, and in my unphilosophical opinion ignorant of human nature of the majority of men.

[KC Elbows]

sounds like a few are bitter about not making an elementary or highschool team in their day, or perhaps picked last in physical education class. To inject some philosophical point of view on how stupid sports are is just as stupid as such a person perceives those sports to be, and in my unphilosophical opinion ignorant of human nature of the majority of men.

Dude, my batting coach was a major league batting coach, I was a better hitter than most of the team, though a mediocre fielder. I just wasn't interested. I can simultaneously recognize something as silly and fun when that's what it is. In my experience, it's the guys who only watch sports who get ridiculously serious about how important to society it is.

[brothernumber9]

Though my reply was after yours KC it was not directed at you at all. I think anyone that participates to a modicum in any "stupid" sport will understand a personal value or lack there-of from that sport; that person will at least have the actual experience to understand.

Correlations, paralells, and tangents can be drawn from most of these "stupid" sports to military, family, personal discipline, and general social structures and environments. The experiences in such sports has helped to positively shape the character of many of those that have seriously played, whether winning or losing. They create a source of entertainment for those that have played and even more that have not. If all that is implicit in the definition of "stupid", then okay.

[KC Elbows]

Though my reply was after yours KC it was not directed at you at all. I think anyone that participates to a modicum in any "stupid" sport will understand a personal value or lack there-of from that sport; that person will at least have the actual experience to understand.

Correlations, paralells, and tangents can be drawn from most of these "stupid" sports to military, family, personal discipline, and general social structures and environments. The experiences in such sports has helped to positively shape the character of many of those that have seriously played, whether winning or losing. They create a source of entertainment for those that have played and even more that have not. If all that is implicit in the definition of "stupid", then okay.

I dunno, some guys regress into neanderthals from having a "team" to back them. It cuts both ways. I get your point, but it does sort of avoid all the negative that is also a part of team sports.

I knew guys who spent ridiculous amounts of their familys money on competing in sports, knew guys who had to live their dad's dream, families who squandered their later children's college money because their first children liked sports.

My point is really that both those negatives and your positives have little to do with what makes those sports really fun, which is hitting/catching/throwing/tackling/etc. Why am I into hitting a ball? No intellectual reason.

[brothernumber9]

all that is true, but half of those negatives exist outside of sports. The pressure to get good grades, to gain a kind of stature like gaining a degree or a prestigious recognition, or being spoiled and just 'wanting' something.

I would also argue that some of the semmingly or even agreeably (is that a word?) negative aspects and/or observations can be perceived as fun by the individual(s) enacting them. Take for instance blocking in American football. Outwardly, one if not most poeple can look at such an instance as archaic, violent, and unnecessary, especially if it occurs no where relatively near where the ball is. However, for those engaged, it can be an experience of a personal challenge, a one-on-one contest, or even in some cases a facing of one's own fears. In the vast majority of these contests, both contestants walk away to try it again and again and again, and I would argue in the vast majority of these contests, a respect is shared between the individuals involved if they feel the encounter was really competetive. There are personal feelings and exhillarations that can be indescribable and fulfilling.

Not the best example in any form, but my point is the personal value gained even if only from being in the experience. Confidences can develop that can pervade a broad spectrum of a person's life, can influence the outcome of how that person faces other challenges in their life after that point. Hardly stupid in my opinion

[Lucas]

the thing thats stupid about sports is that we will take one player of the game and his salary will be more than all the public teachers combined in the state i live in.

so many americans got it backwards

[KC Elbows]

all that is true, but half of those negatives exist outside of sports. The pressure to get good grades, to gain a kind of stature like gaining a degree or a prestigious recognition, or being spoiled and just 'wanting' something.

I would also argue that some of the semmingly or even agreeably (is that a word?) negative aspects and/or observations can be perceived as fun by the individual(s) enacting them. Take for instance blocking in American football. Outwardly, one if not most poeple can look at such an instance as archaic, violent, and unnecessary, especially if it occurs no where relatively near where the ball is. However, for those engaged, it can be an experience of a personal challenge, a one-on-one contest, or even in some cases a facing of one's own fears. In the vast majority of these contests, both contestants walk away to try it again and again and again, and I would argue in the vast majority of these contests, a respect is shared between the individuals involved if they feel the encounter was really competetive. There are personal feelings and exhillarations that can be indescribable and fulfilling.

Not the best example in any form, but my point is the personal value gained even if only from being in the experience. Confidences can develop that can pervade a broad spectrum of a person's life, can influence the outcome of how that person faces other challenges in their life after that point. Hardly stupid in my opinion

You are correct, although I think don't balance the pros with sport specific conhs, like crippling injuries, over focus on a game over one's future, etc.

I guess my view is that there is inherent silliness to it, which I have no problem with, but to go so far as saying(not in response to your post) "sports aren't silly, they are insert over thought paradigm here" utterly misses the point that most people play baseball to play baseball, it's a preference, and preferences of this sort are not intellectual in rationale.

Why do I let people try to throw me or sock me one in the eye? Should I answer that it teaches me to try to excel, to strive for constant improvement, controls my ego, and makes me actualize into a fine upstanding human being? No. Those are possible benefits, but the reason why is because I like it, and that is kind of stupid. Honestly, if not for kung fu, I would probably be checking out videos of hot women oiling each other up, instead of reading lkmfdc's latest troll bashing. I mean, really, I don't even know if he has manb00bs.

It's a sickness.

[AdrianK]

Not fitting remotely, but there are other reasons football is silly. Fun, but silly. Why so serious on the defense of it all?

I thought we were having a serious discussion?

You may find football silly/stupid. But at the very least, even if you completely throw out all of the things it helps develop in a person, you still have a multi-billion dollar industry that is also a piece of entertainment for hundreds of millions of people. So at the very least, business-wise, its far from silly.

Dude, my batting coach was a major league batting coach, I was a better hitter than most of the team, though a mediocre fielder. I just wasn't interested. I can simultaneously recognize something as silly and fun when that's what it is.

Its a game. Not only that but a game that if you allow it to, can help you develop in certain, very important ways as a person. It is as silly as learning to play an instrument, or figuring out puzzles, or playing chess.

In my experience, it's the guys who only watch sports who get ridiculously serious about how important to society it is.

Oh god. Yeah, and its the guys who box, who understand how important boxing is. Its the math majors and programmers who understand how important math is, its the martial artists who understand how important martial arts is. Its the musicians who understand how important music is. Its the artists who understand how important art is.

Yeah, its the people who do those things, who understand them, and thus understand their importance to society. Thank you mister obvious. Thats the way the world works!

Funny thing is, like I said before, I only really watch boxing. I really can't stand watching baseball, basketball or football. I find them incredibly boring.

I dunno, some guys regress into neanderthals from having a "team" to back them.

Team Sports can't make you dumber. Thats dumb people with a team mentality. Not smart people who become dumb people.

I knew guys who spent ridiculous amounts of their familys money on competing in sports

What kind of money is involved in competing in sports? LOL. If you have decent health insurance, the gear is what, a couple hundred dollars at most??? And if you're any good, you get access to scholarships and careers opened up to you.

knew guys who had to live their dad's dream, families who squandered their later children's college money because their first children liked sports.

And that just goes back to dumb people.
You can find horror stories of how stupid people can be, in absolutely every walk of life. ESPECIALLY Martial arts.

the thing thats stupid about sports is that we will take one player of the game and his salary will be more than all the public teachers combined in the state i live in.

so many americans got it backwards

Actually it makes perfect sense.
Your value is what determines your pay. Your value as a player is based off of an estimate of how much money having you on the team, can generate. Thus, LOGICALLY you will get a CUT of that profit comparable to your value.

It also makes me laugh when people talk about how ridiculous the salaries of actors or sports stars are. So do you think the companies promoting them deserve to keep all of those hundreds of millions instead? They have a business that makes billions. Those billions are divided up logically. Everyone is getting paid a comparable amount to the money having them do what they do, generates. There are far better actors than Brad Pitt, but Brad Pitt still puts millions more asses in seats than most anyone else.

I guess my view is that there is inherent silliness to it, which I have no problem with, but to go so far as saying(not in response to your post) "sports aren't silly, they are insert over thought paradigm here" utterly misses the point that most people play baseball to play baseball, it's a preference, and preferences of this sort are not intellectual in rationale.

To say all games are silly is completely ignoring the psychological factors involved in the necessity of games and entertainment for the human psyche. It is actually a very important part of how we live. Those preferences may not be intellectual, but they're not silly nor stupid. Not any more silly than dancing, drawing, playing musical instruments, etc. etc. etc.

[Lucas]

well i never said sports are stupid, but i stand by my reasoning that people place far too much value on entertainment whilst ignoring those careers of true importance, as i said. teaching.

i know teachers that are worth more than any sport star ever created that get paid next to nothing, but luckily they know their own importance and continue to further our future generations.

yes, i know how economics work, and WHY the stars get so much, and ill continue to defend the fact i think our society is sick in the regards that we underpay those who are truly important to our development as a society and a country and are the ones developing our future by teaching our children.

look at germany for example, teachers there make about what an engineer is going to make. why? they know the imortance of teaching.

just look at the national test scores in america vs any other first world country.

[KC Elbows]

Oh god. Yeah, and its the guys who box, who understand how important boxing is. Its the math majors and programmers who understand how important math is, its the martial artists who understand how important martial arts is. Its the musicians who understand how important music is. Its the artists who understand how important art is.

Yeah, its the people who do those things, who understand them, and thus understand their importance to society. Thank you mister obvious. Thats the way the world works!

The important part of taking things so seriously that you're willing to be insulting to other people about it is to ACTUALLY READ WHAT THEY SAID. I said that it's the people who watch, not do, sports, who wax philosophical about it most, not the people who actually do it. Baseball players mostly play baseball because, get this, they simply like it. Same with boxers, football players, etc. They may benefit, or not, but this is all secondary to the fact that they like it. They usually don't spend a lot of time going "baseball revealed to me the wisdom of creation," and mostly leave that stuff to anouncers and journalists who have no skill at the game.

Team Sports can't make you dumber. Thats dumb people with a team mentality. Not smart people who become dumb people.

Bad habits are what I was talking about, not intelligence, and yes, some people start following absolute imbeciles on their team because of habits related to the team dynamic, where they never would have before. If you have never seen this, you must never have been on a team.

What kind of money is involved in competing in sports? LOL. If you have decent health insurance, the gear is what, a couple hundred dollars at most??? And if you're any good, you get access to scholarships and careers opened up to you.

For many sports, to get good, people will enroll their kids into sports programs outside of school, which are run just like children's pageants. Some kids do get good enough from scholarships from this added time.

To say all games are silly is completely ignoring the psychological factors involved in the necessity of games and entertainment for the human psyche. It is actually a very important part of how we live. Those preferences may not be intellectual, but they're not silly nor stupid. Not any more silly than dancing, drawing, playing musical instruments, etc. etc. etc.

Silly things contribute to society all the time. This does not prevent them from being silly. For example, the kids in the link that started this thread all display, in the videos, camaraderie that is typical of a team. Yet, what they were doing was silly. Point proven.

Further, entertainment and industry do not, by default represent a positive or negative thing. They can be either. History has generally viewed the gladiatorial games as a marker of the decadence that would lead to the decline of Rome. The Black Sox scandal certainly was not a positive thing. They can be either, but they are often silly.

And no, this thread, a discussion of whether crazy kicking hopping kids are doing a sport, is not a serious discussion, but I will not upset you further if I can help it. Unless it entertains me, or makes me money, in which case, it's fair sport.