The Wrestler should have been Best Picture

[MasterKiller]

Maybe I just got too much hype beforehand with the Oscars et.al. and was expecting more.

I can't remember the last time a movie did something I didn't expect. There are several chances for the film makers here to take an easy out...reconciling with his daughter, accepting a new role in life, being saved by a relationship...but they don't take it. Instead, you just get the story of a man who has made bad decisions, keeps making bad decisions, and eventually comes to terms with that. In the end, he climbs on the ropes, knowing the consequences, and makes a conscious decision to go out on his sword.

"The Ram" could have been a Raymond Carver protagonist. Flawed, unlikable, but completely real.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I can't remember the last time a movie did something I didn't expect. There are several chances for the film makers here to take an easy out...reconciling with his daughter, accepting a new role in life, being saved by a relationship...but they don't take it. Instead, you just get the story of a man who has made bad decisions, keeps making bad decisions, and eventually comes to terms with that. In the end, he climbs on the ropes, knowing the consequences, and makes a conscious decision to go out on his sword.

"The Ram" could have been a Raymond Carver protagonist. Flawed, unlikable, but completely real.

He took the easy way out...
Which was typical of how he led his life.
Don't get me wrong, it was a good movie, just not a great one.

[GeneChing]

...for the filmmakers, I mean. If they do a happy ending, with reconciliation, redemption, recovery, whatev, I don't think that's anymore marketable for an R rated film, nor do I think that's any easier to write, direct or film. But I begin to see what you see in it, MK. There is a certain nobility to staying the course, even if that means self destruction, for Ram.

Maybe it's because I hate Mickey Rourke. I hated him when he stuck his ****** in the popcorn in Diner. I hated him when played big-white-man-on campus in Year of the Dragon. I hated him when he fed Kim cough syrup in 9 1/2 weeks. Sure, it's his big comeback and he's all buff now, but do we really have to see his bare ass twice? He's just overrated, just like the Wrestler.

[MasterKiller]

...for the filmmakers, I mean. If they do a happy ending, with reconciliation, redemption, recovery, whatev, I don't think that's anymore marketable for an R rated film, nor do I think that's any easier to write, direct or film. But I begin to see what you see in it, MK. There is a certain nobility to staying the course, even if that means self destruction, for Ram.

Maybe it's because I hate Mickey Rourke. I hated him when he stuck his ****** in the popcorn in Diner. I hated him when played big-white-man-on campus in Year of the Dragon. I hated him when he fed Kim cough syrup in 9 1/2 weeks. Sure, it's his big comeback and he's all buff now, but do we really have to see his bare ass twice? He's just overrated, just like the Wrestler.

WHAT? Mickey Rourke has quite possibly the best line ever muttered in a movie. From Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man: "It's better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

[GeneChing]

Never saw that flick. I imagine you recommend it then MK?

[MasterKiller]

Never saw that flick. I imagine you recommend it then MK?

It's a guy movie, on literary par with such classics as Lionheart, Lethal Weapon 4, or RoboCop.

[BoulderDawg]

Just joining in the debate of the "good" verses "great" film.

Just in my opinion, "Greatness" is a high, high level only given to a limited number of films. Wrestler is not a great film. However, just off the top of my head-I might be missing one or two, there hasn't been any "great" films in the last decade.

I thought the Wrestler was a very good film. The one thing that really struck me was that in the years he spent on the circuit wrestling he never made any friends or contacts that could help him get a good job after retirement althought it appeared he was well respected in his wrestling community.

[GeneChing]

Well I liked all those films. Maybe I'll rent it someday.

I hear what you're saying about Wrestler being 'real'. Ironically, it reminds me of the discussion I had with RZA about Slumdog vs. Benjamin Button the last time he was through. As you know, I'm a big fan of Slumdog. I love Bollywood and actually spent time at some of the film's locations like Mumbai and Taj. I've even been through that train station. Anyway, RZA's take was that Slumdog was too real, that this reflected what he saw growing up in the ghetto to some degree, and he preferred Benjamin because it was so fantastic. It took him out of his reality for a moment. I hadn't seen Benjamin yet (still haven't), but I thought that was an interesting take on it all.

One thing I didn't find 'real' was the depiction of the wrestling community. I can't see them all applauding for Ram like that after a match. That just seemed out of touch with reality. I'm also at odds with the stripper with a heart of gold stereotype. While some of those might exist, I think that's really more of a scriptwriter-who-goes-to-a-lot-of-strip-clubs fantasy.

[BoulderDawg]

One thing I didn't find 'real' was the depiction of the wrestling community. I can't see them all applauding for Ram like that after a match. That just seemed out of touch with reality. I'm also at odds with the stripper with a heart of gold stereotype. While some of those might exist, I think that's really more of a scriptwriter-who-goes-to-a-lot-of-strip-clubs fantasy.

Agreed with the stripper story line. That was the weakest part of the movie.

However I could see a group of wrestlers clapping for one of their peers after a good match....especially an old timer who been there forever. Now that said the one thing that has always stuck me about the wrestling community is how private they are. As in any workplace you are going to have people working together who hate each yet, unlike pro sports, you rarely hear of any arguments or fights in the locker room. And I've never seen a pro wrestling match that appeared to get out of hand...Which I think is pretty amazing considering what they do.

[doug maverick]

Well I liked all those films. Maybe I'll rent it someday.

I hear what you're saying about Wrestler being 'real'. Ironically, it reminds me of the discussion I had with RZA about Slumdog vs. Benjamin Button the last time he was through. As you know, I'm a big fan of Slumdog. I love Bollywood and actually spent time at some of the film's locations like Mumbai and Taj. I've even been through that train station. Anyway, RZA's take was that Slumdog was too real, that this reflected what he saw growing up in the ghetto to some degree, and he preferred Benjamin because it was so fantastic. It took him out of his reality for a moment. I hadn't seen Benjamin yet (still haven't), but I thought that was an interesting take on it all.

One thing I didn't find 'real' was the depiction of the wrestling community. I can't see them all applauding for Ram like that after a match. That just seemed out of touch with reality. I'm also at odds with the stripper with a heart of gold stereotype. While some of those might exist, I think that's really more of a scriptwriter-who-goes-to-a-lot-of-strip-clubs fantasy.

well idk if tomeis character had a heart of gold...she was an middle age women still stripping, and here was this guy, who genuinely liked her and always requested her. it wasnt that she had a heart of gold, it was that here she is stripping at her age, she needed an end game, but at the same time here is this guy who is always protecting her. so ofcourse that damsel in distress syndrome kicks in.


as for slumdog......i grew up in the south bronx, which was branded "little vietnam" by ronald raegan, and it was still a billion times better then that hell hole those kids were in, rza is from SI and Staten island aint the south bronx.... so idk asbout reminding him of ny "ghettos". button was good but it was a poor mans forest gump...

also gene speaking as someone who is friends with pro wrestlers if a vet comes into a building you show respect.....and applauding him is a mark sign of that. ram had his own toy and was in a video game. most of those guys wanted that as well.so ofcourse they aplauded him. its like when Mike J. came back with the wizards and all the young bballers ke[t askling hiom for his shoes...

[GeneChing]

Check out the interview of Mickey & Roddy by Jimmy Kimmel. At 4:10, he comments that he felt the that the clapping was "Hollywood". Of course, Piper has a doll and a video game. He's one of the most successful of the lot.

As for Tomei, y'all seem quite fixated on the fact that she's over 40. But she's still smokin' hot. She's also got the moves. I'm sure a woman of her caliber could do just fine as a pro stripper. Hell, I'd drop a $20 on a lapdance from Marisa. Seriously, who here wouldn't?

Doug, I hear you on SI vs Mumbai, and to be fair, RZA's comment is a little out of context. Keep in mind, he can talk really fast and he gets totally worked up when it comes to talking film (especially MA films) so we were talking about a lot at a break neck speed. But he didn't mean his Slumdog comment as a direct comparison. His point, if I might be so bold, was more about the tone of the films. He prefers escapist films over 'reality'. I could see that, although I tend to go the other direction.

[doug maverick]

Check out the interview of Mickey & Roddy by Jimmy Kimmel. At 4:10, he comments that he felt the that the clapping was "Hollywood". Of course, Piper has a doll and a video game. He's one of the most successful of the lot.

As for Tomei, y'all seem quite fixated on the fact that she's over 40. But she's still smokin' hot. She's also got the moves. I'm sure a woman of her caliber could do just fine as a pro stripper. Hell, I'd drop a $20 on a lapdance from Marisa. Seriously, who here wouldn't?

Doug, I hear you on SI vs Mumbai, and to be fair, RZA's comment is a little out of context. Keep in mind, he can talk really fast and he gets totally worked up when it comes to talking film (especially MA films) so we were talking about a lot at a break neck speed. But he didn't mean his Slumdog comment as a direct comparison. His point, if I might be so bold, was more about the tone of the films. He prefers escapist films over 'reality'. I could see that, although I tend to go the other direction.

ok i get it..,. and actually i should have gotten it this morning but i just came home from a 13 hour film shoot so forgive me, actually im with rza on that, i prefer escapist films myself, i think every film to be really effective needs a level of fantasy in order to succeed. i mean if every film was a play by play of life, nobody would go see them they could just look out there window.

[BoulderDawg]

As for Tomei, y'all seem quite fixated on the fact that she's over 40. But she's still smokin' hot. She's also got the moves. I'm sure a woman of her caliber could do just fine as a pro stripper. Hell, I'd drop a $20 on a lapdance from Marisa. Seriously, who here wouldn't?

As I said before, even if a stipper makes it to her mid 40s the chances are she's not going to look like that......and she's sure not going to be still stripping.

As far as escapist film goes: I enjoy them from time to time but the Benjamin Button movie just never made it in my opinion. For one thing no one really explained how somebody could age backwards.