Wing Chun in MMA?

[Keefer]

Has anyone seen someone trained in Wing Chun compete in Mixed Martial Arts? I was wondering how a Wing Chun practitioner will do against other fighting arts in a sports setting as well real life.

[CFT]

Alan Orr and his 'Iron Wolves' team do.
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=53696

But so do others on this forum. I'll let them speak for themselves.

[anerlich]

The results in sportfighting events have not favoured "pure" Wing Chun stylists.

You have to train and adapt for the rules and the type of contest itself. Doing lots of forms and chi sao won't help much in MMA. Trying to "adapt" WC to work on the ground against BJJ stylists is like taking a peashooter to a firefight.

My instructors organisation is not a "pure" Wing Chun school, but we have clocked up wins in MMA, kickboxing, and BJJ. One of my Sidais won his division in a BJJ contest on the weekend, Our Tasmanian branch regularly top the medals in their BJJ state titles. They even won a team forms competition doing Chum Kil.

WC can be adapted, though in some areas it's better augmented. Any limitations you see are your own.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Wing Chun = Striking close quarter infight

MMA = Total fight at all ranges including ground


Do the math

[Phil Redmond]

Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL_qJz8VsXI

[Yoshiyahu]

Wing Chun = Striking close quarter infight

MMA = Total fight at all ranges including ground


Do the math

I think its simpler than that?

Take someone who trains as a street fighter an place in the ring against a skilled Kickboxer or western boxer. He may be the best street fighter but a medicore ring fighter. One reason is because he use to fighting with out gloves. So alot of his common habits will be hendered there...

Take an average MMA guy who trains boxing,Muay Thai and BJJ and put in the Tae Kwon Do tournment or have him fight on a boxing circuit. He will not fair well. Most of his weapons he can not use. If his strongest weapon is the Jitjisu or Kicking fighting a boxer with boxing gloves and rules will hinder his fighting ability.


Parallel Scenarios:
Take a boxer and have him fight in the Tae Kwon Do Olympics.

Have an MMA guy Fight in TKD Olympics.

Have a Kick boxer enter a push hands or chi competition.

Have a Muay Thai figher fight in a Boxing Circuit.

Put a boxer in full contact Karate tournment.

The problem is they do not train for so sort of competition so all of them will be at a disadvantage. The same with a WC guy who trains for street combat.


All these scenarios have limitations yes. But the main point is how do you train? How do you defend against attacks. What type of attacks do you defend against.


Sad to say the only way to truly test true skill would be a kumite where there are no rules. A No rule Letai fighting match would be the only way to even out the playing field.

[anerlich]

I think its simpler than that?

LOL at that theoretical ****storm being simpler than Vic's three short statements.

[Katsu Jin Ken]

I think its simpler than that?

Take someone who trains as a street fighter an place in the ring against a skilled Kickboxer or western boxer. He may be the best street fighter but a medicore ring fighter. One reason is because he use to fighting with out gloves. So alot of his common habits will be hendered there...

Take an average MMA guy who trains boxing,Muay Thai and BJJ and put in the Tae Kwon Do tournment or have him fight on a boxing circuit. He will not fair well. Most of his weapons he can not use. If his strongest weapon is the Jitjisu or Kicking fighting a boxer with boxing gloves and rules will hinder his fighting ability.


Parallel Scenarios:
Take a boxer and have him fight in the Tae Kwon Do Olympics.

Have an MMA guy Fight in TKD Olympics.

Have a Kick boxer enter a push hands or chi competition.

Have a Muay Thai figher fight in a Boxing Circuit.

Put a boxer in full contact Karate tournment.

The problem is they do not train for so sort of competition so all of them will be at a disadvantage. The same with a WC guy who trains for street combat.


All these scenarios have limitations yes. But the main point is how do you train? How do you defend against attacks. What type of attacks do you defend against.


Sad to say the only way to truly test true skill would be a kumite where there are no rules. A No rule Letai fighting match would be the only way to even out the playing field.

this sounds like a guy that trained with us back in the day, he didnt want to take the time to understand the system as a whole totally ignored the fact that in a fight you CAN be taken to the ground, someone CAN clinch to grapple you people CAN throw you This isnt a personal attack but he tried his luck in the cage, being a defensive only fighter and lost. Make your game as a circle, well rounded

2 things i keep inmind when im sparring:

1.come foreword
2. sh*t happens

[Ultimatewingchun]

"2 things i keep inmind when im sparring:"


1.come foreword
2. sh*t happens

............................................


***Ha! Ha! Ha! I love it. Gonna steal that one!

[couch]

Has anyone seen someone trained in Wing Chun compete in Mixed Martial Arts? I was wondering how a Wing Chun practitioner will do against other fighting arts in a sports setting as well real life.

IMO, it comes down to how you're training. A lot of folks in the martial arts community aren't in it to win it. They're playing patty cake and dodgeball at the local Tae Kwon Do school.

And you have to honest to yourself as well. What do you want to get out of Wing Chun? Do want to adapt Wing Chun for the ring? Do it. But you have to think of everything else in between: conditioning and other ranges.

The fact is that your instructor can very well pass on the system to you. But maybe your instructor is a Chi Sau addict. Or maybe your instructor isn't in his prime anymore, etc. Doesn't matter either way. You are fighting and have chosen Wing Chun as your style of expression. Gotta turn up the heat and the only one who can do that is you.

So there's two sides to this: you gotta have the ability (or network of people)to rip WC apart and you gotta have the ability (or network of people) to put it back together in a fight context.

People want to know about what I do for a martial art all the time. "Is it relaxing like Tai Chi?" they ask. "No," I reply. "It's for hitting people in the head with."

And then the conversation-ender is when they ask, "You don't really hit each other when you're training, do you?"

[Ultimatewingchun]

"So there's two sides to this: you gotta have the ability (or network of people) to rip WC apart and you gotta have the ability (or network of people) to put it back together in a fight context."


***EXCELLENT point, couch.

I've had students (and friends) from as far back as 20 years ago who first came to me with boxing, wrestling, kickboxing, karate skills - and we've been doing what you suggest right to this very day.

And I've learned more about how to tear it down and build it back up fightwise from working out with these guys than I could ever hope to do by simply working with wing chun-only people.

Because no one single fighting style has all the the important answers to fighting - you must do a blend or some sort if you want to be on top of the game.

[OdderMensch]

this sounds like a guy that trained with us back in the day, he didnt want to take the time to understand the system as a whole totally ignored the fact that in a fight you CAN be taken to the ground, someone CAN clinch to grapple you people CAN throw you This isnt a personal attack but he tried his luck in the cage, being a defensive only fighter and lost. Make your game as a circle, well rounded

2 things i keep in mind when im sparring:

1.come foreword
2. sh*t happens

Well I agree Completely with the last part of your Post, **** does indeed happen!

But "the system as a whole totally ignored the fact that in a fight you CAN be taken to the ground, someone CAN clinch to grapple you people CAN throw you.."

I have to disagree strongly with that.

Someone can clinch you :
yes, absolutely they can! and If you keep your elbows in the right place, your stance properly rooted (allowing for mobility) and your pressure forward you can also disrupt the clinch and find yourself in short striking distance in the inside of the clincher. We practice a series of "clinch Drills" that begin with "ok I've clinched you, now what" and have tested it against a few wrestlers.

Someone can throw you:
Yes, but it is very difficult on the part of the thrower if you have a nice, solid stance. I have the privilege of working with Mantis Practitioners, solid "throwers" and they rarely throw us! Not that it can't happen, its just a bit of a chore for them.

You can go to the ground:
Naturally, gravity still applied in Old China you know. There is a belief (I think a mistaken one) that Chinese don't fight on the ground because it was 'distasteful' to them" But China has had some of the down and dirtiest fighters in history and distaste or not they fought on the ground, from the ground and with the ground. BJJ and other systems have a nice, very well thought out ground game, but that does not mean i am going to give up as soon as my feet leave Terra frima! And yes Wing Chun has Di Tong (Ground Tactics) that go well beyond clawing and pinching from a fetal position. I'm not gonna win any BJJ matches, but i think I can get up and away.


MMA has become a specialized environment, of course people who train with and for that environment are going to win in that environment 9 times out of ten. I, personally, never plan to fight in that environment.

I understand and appreciate that yours was not a personal attack, and i hope no one sees mine as on either.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Odder you're delusional. Time taken to experience working against people who really know how and when to clinch and/or go for a takedown, and how to set those things up...

is waaaay better than spending hours and hours at the kool aid fountain.

[Kansuke]

Someone can clinch you :
yes, absolutely they can! and If you keep your elbows in the right place, your stance properly rooted (allowing for mobility) and your pressure forward you can also disrupt the clinch and find yourself in short striking distance in the inside of the clincher. We practice a series of "clinch Drills" that begin with "ok I've clinched you, now what" and have tested it against a few wrestlers.

Someone can throw you:
Yes, but it is very difficult on the part of the thrower if you have a nice, solid stance. I have the privilege of working with Mantis Practitioners, solid "throwers" and they rarely throw us! Not that it can't happen, its just a bit of a chore for them.

You can go to the ground:
Naturally, gravity still applied in Old China you know. There is a belief (I think a mistaken one) that Chinese don't fight on the ground because it was 'distasteful' to them" But China has had some of the down and dirtiest fighters in history and distaste or not they fought on the ground, from the ground and with the ground. BJJ and other systems have a nice, very well thought out ground game, but that does not mean i am going to give up as soon as my feet leave Terra frima! And yes Wing Chun has Di Tong (Ground Tactics) that go well beyond clawing and pinching from a fetal position. I'm not gonna win any BJJ matches, but i think I can get up and away.

..............................wow

[OdderMensch]

Well I had a well thought out and even spell checked response, But it seems it did not post.

So I will just ask, what exactly it is that seems far-fetched?

Can I be clinched, thrown, submitted on the ground? Yes I can!

Do I plan to match a BJJ (or any other well trained ground fighter) on the ground? No I don't!

Do I train for the ground? Yes I do. I train in my Kwoon, and I train against people outside of my Kwoon. I've sparred Wrestlers, Kick-Boxers, Other kung Fu styles, other wing chun people, boxers, TKD, Karate and others. I've been to the ground and gotten back up, I've been to the ground and fought, I've been to the ground and stayed there (not by my choice, believe me) and nothing has convinced me that I need to 'Add' anything but more of what my Sifu has to teach me!

UWC - I've been around here for a while, since I first begin training and even if I have not been here for a while I remember you as being a fighter, so I'm certain you will hold your ground and tell me what is wrong with what I have said, you began to in your short post, but please elaborate! Also I hates Kool Aid, too sweet!

Kansuke - Don't know you, but you quoted my entire post only to throw down an Emoticon! I know President Lincoln invented them and they are cool, but please use your words man!