It's about time: Acu at Federal Level

[herb ox]

This just in:

There's a bill to add Acupuncture to Medicare services.

This could be a big deal since approval at the Federal level would likely pave the way for inclusion in other states' coverage as well.

Federal recognition - does it mean all the acupucture nay-sayers are wrong, or is the current administration nothing but a bunch of left-leaning hippie-loving liberals?

ox

[Corwyn]

Oh Lord, just what we need MORE of our tax dollars ****ed away at stupid delusional sh8.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....back-pain.html

In other words YET AGAIN, we see that it is nothing more then a well explained and consistent scientific phenomenon known as the placebo affect.


But thanks for the heads up. I am off to write every one of my elected official as well as posting this to several other forums of sane people to tell them to do the same.

[herb ox]

Bold statements often come from the most uneducated. Bring a better argument or stand down, Corwyn. If you actually read the article instead of just the headlines you'd know that the outcome of the experiment supports the efficacy of acupuncture versus the usual standard of care. So, now even MD's and qualified scientists don't have a legit opinion simply because your mind can't expand far enough to consider the possibilities.

But then again, some insist on suffering... at the hands of so-called science. So, go ahead, argue for your limitations - sure enough, they'll be yours to keep.

ox

[mawali]

This just in:

There's a bill to add Acupuncture to Medicare services.

This could be a big deal since approval at the Federal level would likely pave the way for inclusion in other states' coverage as well.

Federal recognition - does it mean all the acupucture nay-sayers are wrong, or is the current administration nothing but a bunch of left-leaning hippie-loving liberals?

ox

Great strides!
NADA, despite its fringe and narrow acceptance by the greater group, has done alot to make acupuncture more accessible to the greater population while demystiifying the educationalal and anointed soul of 1001 strategems to heal!

[osprey3883]

Hello,
That is awesome news, it would be great to be able to see an acupuncturist and have it covered by insurance. I look forward to the day when alternative medicines are fully embraced/covered by the insurance industry.
Thanks,
Matt

[Corwyn]

Bold statements often come from the most uneducated. Bring a better argument or stand down, Corwyn. If you actually read the article instead of just the headlines you'd know that the outcome of the experiment supports the efficacy of acupuncture versus the usual standard of care. So, now even MD's and qualified scientists don't have a legit opinion simply because your mind can't expand far enough to consider the possibilities.

But then again, some insist on suffering... at the hands of so-called science. So, go ahead, argue for your limitations - sure enough, they'll be yours to keep.

ox

Err, NO typical blinded faith in ones delusions.

if YOU had bothered to read the article you would have LEARNED that "real" acupuncture is as real and effective as FAKE (as if there was a difference between the 2) acupuncture.


In other words all the piles of horse**** you talk about in terms of the flow of qi and the "special" meridian points that control the gates of energy is NOTHING
but a delusion YOU suffer from or MORE likely the CON you use to steal peoples money and hope!


This study LIKE the dozens of other before it proved that there IS NO reality to any of the crap you peddle.


That sticking a needle ANYWHERE or even PRETENDING - but not actually doing it, and only having the "patient BELIEVE that you have - created the same exact results.

IN other words a PLACIBO -

Acupuncture, the ancient Chinese practice of sticking needles into a patient at specific points to relieve pain and treat other conditions, seems to alleviate pain just barely better than sticking needles into non specified parts of the body, a new analysis shows.

The studies enrolled 3,025 people in all. In each, the participants were randomly assigned to get one of the three therapies. Decreases in pain, if any, were recorded using standard pain scales.

On average, people getting acupuncture or sham acupuncture — in which needles are stuck into body areas not targeted by acupuncturists — sensed a clear decrease in pain, whereas those getting standard care sensed considerably less improvement.

People getting real acupuncture reported a little more pain relief than those getting the sham needle sticks, but this slight difference was insignificant from a clinical perspective, says study coauthor Asbjørn Hróbjartsson, a physician and epidemiologist at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...ick_it_to_pain

STOP LYING TO YOURSELF - Reality is really not that scary.

[mawali]

It falls in the realm of functional medicine, where, if the pain these veterans are experiencing can diminsh over time and they feel objectively better, then whatever tool is providing that has to be positive.

I am sure that painkillers, surgery, etc cost 10x the benefit of acupuncture so
nothing mystical here! If ti works, fund/cover it!

land of the free, home of the brave

[Corwyn]

It falls in the realm of functional medicine, where, if the pain these veterans are experiencing can diminsh over time

YEA and statistically doing NOTHING in a vast majority of cases will also accomplish the SAME exact thing!

THUS REAL doctors primary tenant when treating patients
"FIRST do NO harm" and why acupuncture works because it does no harm that is to say it does NOTHING!

I am sure that painkillers, surgery, etc cost 10x the benefit of acupuncture so
nothing mystical here!

Yes well, but painkillers, surgery etc have ONE thing going for it that acupuncture does not - REALITY!

If I give you 5mg of a pain killer vs a 50mg of it I can;
TEST the results,
REPEAT the results,
VARIFY the results,

I don't have to have a SPECIAL powers to make the pain killer work!
The patient doesn't have to be a SPECIAL frame of mind ( a common claim on this board as well as othoer woo sites is that people like me "jsut lack special understanding or haven't opened my mind enough, or learned enough etc etc)

Hell the patient doesn't even have to be conscious and SURPRISE the reality based painkiller STILL works!

in the meanwhile, every study has pretty much shown that the fairy tales of qi and meridian lines and flows of energy are horsesh8! That ANY Joe pulled out of a half way decent drama club can pretend to ***** you with toothpicks at randomly selected spots of his choosing and create exactly the same results
as the WISE, ALL KNOWING, 1000s of years of tradition handed down family secrets, coveted and guarded with their lives by shaolin monks, dedicated the last 20 years of his life to opening his mind acupuncture advocate.
YEA

If ti works,

right maybe on planet X

land of the free, home of the brave

appeal to jingoism is not an effective tool to prove ANYTHING, see 1933 Germany.

[herb ox]

Yeah, those pain meds also addict 1.9 million people in America, long after the pain has gone. Oh, and the pain meds quickly stop working as well, requiring a higher dosage to kill the same pain.

Tee Hee Hee... Go away, Corwyn... you're causing my Liver Qi to stagnate

It's obvious that you have a complete inability to use logic, even for a moment, as evidenced by your extensive statements completely ungrounded in anything real. You just keep arguing the same thing - no evidence, etc. but there is plenty of evidence published in reputable peer-reviewed medical journals demonstrating acupuncture's efficacy. Don't confuse not understanding how something works with it not working. You can not see gravity itself around you, yet it continues to exert its effect upon us as evidenced by visually demonstrable results (i.e the apple falling on your head).

In fact, the World Health Organization feels so strongly that Acupuncture works, it published a report suggesting acu be used INSTEAD of the usual care for 33 diseases/complaints. This was supported by data of numerous studies and meta-analyses. Think you know more than the WHO just because you're bigmouthed and opinionated think you know it all 'cause you get all your info from Fox news? I beg to differ.

World Health Organization - 1 ; Corwyn - 0

Better luck next time, pal. Keep trying.

herb ox

[Vajramusti]

I hope that insurance coverage is extended to cover acupuncture treatment by licensed competent and qualified acupuncturists.

A single model of treatment does not serve every possible health problem.Medicine is an applied science not a pure science. The benefits of acupuncture has been of use to many people over many years. In every legitimate treatment systems there are competent people and incompetents, procedural care and procedural sloppiness.

There is no question on the efficacy and advantage of western medicine and equipment in a wide variety of cases, specially emergencies. But with some chronic problems many medications can have undesirable side effects and many surgical procedures are over used..

Comptent acupuncture has very little if any adverse side effects.

One of the problems in health delivery is the weakness of good diagnosis. Analysis of possible causation is an art that has been replaced by multiple lab testing more for legal reasons that medical.

So my brief is not for any acupuncture but good acupuncture. Check the background and training of the acupuncturist= one should do that more with MDs as well.

In the US in non Chinese communities- folks were not really aware of acupuncture till the Nixon visit to China when there were accompanying journalists including James Reston -an editor of the New York Times. He suffered serious appendicitis in China and there was not enough time for him to fly back to the US for treatment. Then on TV was shown the circumstances of Reston's care--- cooperation between Western and Chinese medicine. Instead of the standrd anesthesia- Reston was acupunctured for the operation. He was not unconscious.

In China in big cities there are Colleges of Western medicine as well as Colleges of TCM. The former is often used for cuts, wounds, accidents. major infections. The TCM modalities including acupuncture often used for strokes, arthritis and many kinds of imbalances in the body.

I have been helped many times by competent practitioners of western and eastern medicine.
I don't need to go into personal details here.

The concern on costs is a different matter---the real costs of health care is caused by greedy
drug companies and their system of peddling and hospitals who charge exorbitant amounts
and their partners in the health "industry".

joy chaudhuri