Trapping From The Ground

[air]

We recently started adding videos of how we train and learn.

Take a look and tell us what you think!

http://www.entertaichi.com/videos/id...round-Control/

[m1k3]

I realize this was a demonstration but something I saw. The person doing the trapping, inside the person on his backs guard is making a serious mistake with the positioning of his legs and feet. He is kneeling on one knee, has the other foot planted on the next to the belt of the person on his back. (0:47)

All the person on his back needs to do is put his hand/arm under the upright knee, the one near his belt, of the kneeling person and he can sweep him to the opposite side and end up on top in full mount. As I watched further the person on top actually pushed the person on the bottoms knee into the sweep position (1:35) almost guaranteeing that he will be swept to his back.

At 0:52 of the clip he places his left elbow inside the knee of the person pulling guard. He is setting himself up for a triangle choke by allowing the person with guard clear access to swing his leg around the demonstrators head.

My opinion is that neither of the people on this video had any submission grappling experience.

[taai gihk yahn]

agree w/M1K3: the guy in the guard is begging to be swept, and is also predicating his "strategy" on responses that a trained grappler would not do; for example, if he tuned a trained grappler onto their side that way, the escape he thinks that he's blocking (that is, turning directly back the way he came) is not the escape that the grappler would even look to do;

also, he has no clue at all about where the sciatic nerve is - which is why people who don't know spit about anatomy shouldn't try to use it to look more knowledgeable than they are...

[Violent Designs]

There are specific principles of groundfighting, that both of them are not following. By not using proper positioning and principles, against a trained submission grappler they will be submitted in no time.

[Hendrik]

There are specific principles of groundfighting, that both of them are not following. By not using proper positioning and principles, against a trained submission grappler they will be submitted in no time.

and Where can one find those specific principles?


Thanks

[couch]

Agreed with all.

Plus, realizing that it's a demo, the person on their back is trying to hit the other guy. Some stuff you just can't pull off in real time because you're getting your head bashed in.

And the sciatic nerve comment was hilarious. As an acupunk, I treat sciatica a lot in my clinic. It's nowhere near the inside thigh. It has two common pathways: GB and UB. These are the side of the leg and back of the leg, respectively.

[taai gihk yahn]

And the sciatic nerve comment was hilarious. As an acupunk, I treat sciatica a lot in my clinic. It's nowhere near the inside thigh.

yeah, I had to do a double "oh no he didn't" take: I mean, all my patients who have sciatica have a better idea of where the so-called "sciatic" nerve is - that was just strange (he's basically aiming for what looks like femoral neurovascular cluster, which is definitely a sensitive area);
what's funnier is that on the site's homepage they state:

Our Basic Teachings Lie In 3 Points Of Focus:

The laws of nature, the anatomy of the human body, and the principles of physics.
It is through these 3 laws that we learn to how energy is moved, its strengths and
limitations through the body and how to control the force behind it.

In other words, if we can’t prove it through science, we don’t teach the techniques.

oh well, so much or that...

It has two common pathways: GB and UB. These are the side of the leg and back of the leg, respectively.

the GB tract would be more like priformis / ITB syndrome versus sciatica in terms of "western" dx.; although to be honest, the whole sciatic / ITB thing is really just naming the pain based on location - got nothing to do with what causes it (which can be anything from the foot, to the pelvic floor, to the cranial base, to the guts, as that area is kind of a garbage can zone, esp. w/piriformis - basically Jumping ROund / GB20 - getting unhappy for almost any reason); I'm sure you have seen lots of people having gotten nowhere w/the standard silly PT treatments as well...

[Knifefighter]

and Where can one find those specific principles?


Thanks

The same way you would learn them in anything else. Train in groundfighting.

Just don't learn them from the guy teaching in that video, as he is completely clueless on the ground... the other clips are equally as ludicrous. He is giving his opponent sweeps, escapes and submissions all over the place. Neither one of those guys has a clue about what to do on the ground.

This is a perfect example of what happens when you try to extrapolate standing principles onto the ground.

[Hendrik]

The same way you would learn them in anything else. Train in groundfighting.

Just don't learn them from the guy teaching in that video, as he is completely clueless on the ground... the other clips are equally as ludicrous. He is giving his opponent sweeps, escapes and submissions all over the place. Neither one of those guys has a clue about what to do on the ground.

This is a perfect example of what happens when you try to extrapolate standing principles onto the ground.

Good advise, Thanks!

[Yoshiyahu]

What does Wing Chun Kuen Kuit say about Ground fighting?

[Hendrik]

What does Wing Chun Kuen Kuit say about Ground fighting?

IT said,

SHUT UP and learn from the Ground Fighter if you intent to know the art of Ground.

[taai gihk yahn]

What does Wing Chun Kuen Kuit say about Ground fighting?

probably something akin to
"avoid it like a horse with missing teeth" or some such...

Just don't learn them from the guy teaching in that video, as he is completely clueless on the ground... the other clips are equally as ludicrous. He is giving his opponent sweeps, escapes and submissions all over the place. Neither one of those guys has a clue about what to do on the ground.
This is a perfect example of what happens when you try to extrapolate standing principles onto the ground.

just to underscore this: I have minimal ground experience, only 8 mos. into BJJ, and prior to studying it, I would have looked at that clip and been like "well, ok, it seems reasonable"; at this point, it amazes me that, even as a total newb, I can see as many mistakes based on assumptions that this guy is making by trying to, as KF points out, inappropriately applying stand-up concepts to ground fighting

[AdrianK]

What does Wing Chun Kuen Kuit say about Ground fighting?

Wing Chun Kuen Kuit says:
Don't go to the ground

Go to the ground but use Wing Chun principles only

Go to the ground but use Wing Chun principles mostly

Go to the ground if necessary but learn how to ground fight from a legitimate source

That the statistics that lots of fights go to the ground are actually reversed and 94% of fights go to the standup

That you don't need the ground anymore because Strikers in UFC have successfully thwarted ground fighters

That the Ground does not exist, the matrix has you.


Depending on who you talk to. We've got over two dozen lineages and thousands of teachers who all believe different things... and lets not get the JKD Wing Chun spin-offs into the mix..

[Mr Punch]

We recently started adding videos of how we train and learn.

Take a look and tell us what you think!

http://www.entertaichi.com/videos/id...round-Control/

My eyes! My eyes!

The instructor's arse is in the air. The whole time. Not only is that not basic grappling principles of basing out but it's also ignoring basic CMA principles of sinking. A brutal sweep followed by merciless GnP should follow. Of the six 'instructional' vids that are actually your school's er... let me see... ALL of them are 'groundfighting'! Something to prove? All you've proved is that one of you at least should go and learn some grappling. Six months should put you in the vicinity of the right planet.

[lkfmdc]

that was, uh, pathetic......