Why does Black Flag history keep changing?

[stonecrusher69]

its my feeling that black flag history is fake just like buddha hand wing chun

Buddha Hand Wing Chun History is no more fake then any other WC history. What's important is how real your WC is.

[t_niehoff]

Buddha Hand Wing Chun History is no more fake then any other WC history.

That's not quite accurate. While all WCK oral traditions (history) have elements of myth and fantasy (the Shaolin Temple, for example), we can reliably trace lineages (WCK history is lineage) as far back as the Red Boats with people we can prove really existed and knew/taught WCK. With regard to Buddha Hand, there is no evidence of its existence prior to Henry Leung (who has over the years come forward with several versions of BH lore). And, it "looks" remarkably like Yip Man WCK with a few flourishes.

What's important is how real your WC is.

I completely agree.

[Hendrik]

Buddha Hand Wing Chun History is no more fake then any other WC history. What's important is how real your WC is.

I hope you know what you just step into.

[stonecrusher69]

That's not quite accurate. While all WCK oral traditions (history) have elements of myth and fantasy (the Shaolin Temple, for example), we can reliably trace lineages (WCK history is lineage) as far back as the Red Boats with people we can prove really existed and knew/taught WCK. With regard to Buddha Hand, there is no evidence of its existence prior to Henry Leung (who has over the years come forward with several versions of BH lore). And, it "looks" remarkably like Yip Man WCK with a few flourishes.



I completely agree.

althought BHWC linages is a short one, It's just a has valid as a lineage that goes back to the red boats era. JKD lineage is very short also. As far as BHWC looking very much like Yip Man WC... No its very differnet in every respect. Just ask someone who has trained with our group and they will tell you. Many have years in Yip Man WC and can tell you its very different. Unless you have personally trained with us( myself or my sifu) you can not make any sound judgment on it. I don't make any judgnments on other WC style I have not personally have experience with. AS far as the several versions of BHWC again there are planty of versions of other lineages also. The versions don't matter its only a story what's important is what the style about ,Is it effect? is it what I'm looking for? and so on.

[t_niehoff]

althought BHWC linages is a short one,

Yes, you're correct -- it started with Henry Leung.

It's just a has valid as a lineage that goes back to the red boats era.

I'm not saying that as a martial art it is any less "valid" (whatever that means) because its lineage BEGAN with Henry Leung.

JKD lineage is very short also.

Very true. The difference is, of course, that Bruce Lee took credit for creating JKD -- and didn't make up numerous stories of where JKD came from.

As far as BHWC looking very much like Yip Man WC... No its very differnet in every respect. Just ask someone who has trained with our group and they will tell you. Many have years in Yip Man WC and can tell you its very different. Unless you have personally trained with us( myself or my sifu) you can not make any sound judgment on it.

Where have I heard that refrain before?

Yip Man WCK has numerous "signatures", and BHWCK has those "signatures". I won't argue that Leung and his students may have gone their own way with BHWCK but I think its clear that it started out as YMWCK.

[stonecrusher69]

Yes, you're correct -- it started with Henry Leung.



I'm not saying that as a martial art it is any less "valid" (whatever that means) because its lineage BEGAN with Henry Leung.



Very true. The difference is, of course, that Bruce Lee took credit for creating JKD -- and didn't make up numerous stories of where JKD came from.



Where have I heard that refrain before?

Yip Man WCK has numerous "signatures", and BHWCK has those "signatures". I won't argue that Leung and his students may have gone their own way with BHWCK but I think its clear that it started out as YMWCK.

Yip Man WCK and BHWCK are very different.It's not just what I think but what most people who have met me or my teacher who have said over and over that our WC is very different. As far as Henry Leung making it up or using verious stories as far as where BHWC comes from.Myself I've only heard one story the other stories come from mostly his students. What ever the case may be, lineage is not really important. What's important is what 's being presented.If someone wanted to really know what BHWC was about you will not find out about it here. You need to see for your self.

[TenTigers]

I agree with Hendrick-it's a stupid doo-doo agenda!

[eomonroe00]

i have trained in both buddha hand and yip man wing chun and they are very different.

[Rolf]

So Buddha Hand exists on its own and is different than Yip Man Wing Chun.

Why does Black Flag keep trying to change its history?

And why does Hendrik keep spewing garbage that is that is just plain wrong?


Hendrik, I guess you really can’t put the history together correctly. By the way, why are you STILL the only one claiming WC comes from White Crane? Sounds crazy and like gibberish to me! I hope your therapist helps you work through this difficult time.

[Hendrik]

So Buddha Hand exists on its own and is different than Yip Man Wing Chun.

Why does Black Flag keep trying to change its history?

And why does Hendrik keep spewing garbage that is that is just plain wrong?


Hendrik, I guess you really can’t put the history together correctly. By the way, why are you STILL the only one claiming WC comes from White Crane? Sounds crazy and like gibberish to me! I hope your therapist helps you work through this difficult time.

I certainly wont expect those who couldnt even capable of read time line and simple number such as Year and date to be able to think like a normal human.

[Hendrik]

All the ZEN Shao Lin...... Energy .... Time.... Space.... Anti Qing..... Understanding.... all type of Kiu Sau.... all type of .....


these type of teaching are Not Zen or Buddhism at all, in fact these type of teaching is totally upside down --- Polished brick trying to make mirror.

these type of teaching is Chinese cult teaching in ancient China..
Most today are just mislead and lost but still with their Self-Rigtheousness delusion thinking they UNDERSTAND the truth.



Here are some simple and proper introduction of what is Zen.

WCner wake up! See clearly and attain but Dont understand,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ9S4lpDdUU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0tLVQLSlsE&NR=1




Get oneself straight before keep inventing HIs-Story and Pointing finger at others...

[t_niehoff]

Yip Man WCK and BHWCK are very different. It's not just what I think but what most people who have met me or my teacher who have said over and over that our WC is very different.

It may - and I stress may -- be very different NOW. So what? That doesn't mean that YM may not have been the source. We were talking about history, remember? You brought that up. So the question is where BH came from. And my point is that it came from Yip Man lineage (who precisely taught Leung WCK we don't know since Leung hasn't ever told the truth about that) via Henry Leung, who took YM WCK and modified it into BH.

As far as Henry Leung making it up or using verious stories as far as where BHWC comes from.Myself I've only heard one story the other stories come from mostly his students. What ever the case may be, lineage is not really important.

Lineage is important if you are talking about WCK history (that topic you brought up). WCK history is essentially lineage.

And as far as you only hearing one story and others coming from his students -- where do you think they got them from? Hmm? Let me give you a hint: Henry Leung.

Of course, you could prove Henry Leung didn't create BH WCK from YM WCK by simply producing a BH WCK practitioner that predates Leung. But,we both know that won't happen.

What's important is what 's being presented.If someone wanted to really know what BHWC was about you will not find out about it here. You need to see for your self.

If someone were interested in BH WCK, then they should check it out. Why someone would be interested, I can't imagine.

[t_niehoff]

Why does Black Flag keep trying to change its history?

It's history doesn't change. The story being presented as its history changes. And that story changes since it is still a work in progress. That story is marketing, an attempt to sell Black Flag to the gullible using "history" as some sort of proof or bona fide of its "power" as a marital art. This is an old dodge that continues to be used.

Quite frankly, anyone today (with all we knoow) who buys into that sort of rubbish is IMHO either extremely gullible or an idiot.

[chusauli]

Regarding Henry Leung - Duncan Leung (no relation) had much to say in his biography "Wing Chun Warrior" about him.

I believe Duncan is the Yip Man WCK source of BHWC.

http://www.everythingwingchun.com/Du...ior-p/dl01.htm

[eomonroe00]

That story is marketing, an attempt to sell Black Flag to the gullible using "history" as some sort of proof or bona fide of its "power"-t niehoff

how far will that get you?
eventually you have to show the power, and show you can teach it,