Why does Black Flag history keep changing?

[stonecrusher69]

Regarding Henry Leung - Duncan Leung (no relation) had much to say in his biography "Wing Chun Warrior" about him.

I believe Duncan is the Yip Man WCK source of BHWC.

http://www.everythingwingchun.com/Du...ior-p/dl01.htm

BHWC and WC from DL lineage have nothing in common. Both styles are completly different. They are as far apart as two WC styles can be. My Si Dai did 9 years of this style of WC. and he can tell you it has no similarites what so ever.

[Hendrik]

BHWC and WC from DL lineage have nothing in common. Both styles are completly different. They are as far apart as two WC styles can be. My Si Dai did 9 years of this style of WC. and he can tell you it has no similarites what so ever.

Sontecrusher69,

Why get into this path? IMHO, drop it before it got too far.

I know the teaching of my late sigung Ven Hsu Yun very well.
so, I hope you drop this discussion. Say you dont know and Get out of it the easy way.

Best Regards

[chusauli]

BHWC and WC from DL lineage have nothing in common. Both styles are completly different. They are as far apart as two WC styles can be. My Si Dai did 9 years of this style of WC. and he can tell you it has no similarites what so ever.

I am only suggesting many read the book Wing Chun Warrior and read Duncan Leung's side of the story. William Cheung also mentioned once that Henry Leung learned from Duncan Leung and made up his own system.

I am from NYC. I even learned briefly from Henry and even had friends learn from Henry. I have heard the made up stories and false history of Fut Sao WCK for many years. Some of them border on fantasy and superstitious. Others like having Buddhist grandmaster Hsu Yun teaching him WCK is utterly false, as well as linking his last name to Leung Bok Chau, Leung Yee Tai, Leung Jan (alleged famous ancestors).

I think some Fut Sao people are absolutely skilled. There is no denying that. Skill is effort over time and some are gifted and talented individuals. But as to the his-story and lineage...

[Hendrik]

But as to the his-story and lineage...

Robert,

all the Shao Lin Zen his-story trying to gain upper hand in WCK lineage is just too much.


Compare the teaching of those who keep saying Zen Zen Shao lin Shao lin or even tan Sau Ng to the following clear description of Zen in youtube ,

one will see, all of these people who create his-story dont even have the basic of Zen but self invention totally off and opposite to the path of Zen.


how can one preach , promote ,and design martial art for anti-qing when one's believe is to let go of attachement which is the totally opposite? make sense only it is a make up story.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ9S4lpDdUU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0tLVQLSlsE&NR=1

[stonecrusher69]

I am only suggesting many read the book Wing Chun Warrior and read Duncan Leung's side of the story. William Cheung also mentioned once that Henry Leung learned from Duncan Leung and made up his own system.

I am from NYC. I even learned briefly from Henry and even had friends learn from Henry. I have heard the made up stories and false history of Fut Sao WCK for many years. Some of them border on fantasy and superstitious. Others like having Buddhist grandmaster Hsu Yun teaching him WCK is utterly false, as well as linking his last name to Leung Bok Chau, Leung Yee Tai, Leung Jan (alleged famous ancestors).

I think some Fut Sao people are absolutely skilled. There is no denying that. Skill is effort over time and some are gifted and talented individuals. But as to the his-story and lineage...

Yes, I know you learned very briefly from Henry.I also know there are many stories about FSWC. Howerever no one can say for sure who Henry learned from.The book you mentioned " Wing Chun Warrior" I have never read,but my Si- Dai has the book and told me he can't remember any mention of Henry Leung in his book.I don't believe Duncan Leung has made any officail public statments about Henry or Futsao. Again, if you compare Fut sao alone side Duncan system it's very easy to see they have nothing in common. If the root of Henry WC is Duncan then there would be a connection which I see none at all.It is different in every respect. As far as the history of FSWC we are currently lokking into this and have obtain varifieable information on FSWC from China. When we are ready we may publish it.

[chusauli]

Yes, well, the worst story I heard was when Henry was allegedly locked in a box and GM Hsu Yun had just expired, and gave him instructions from beyond to tell Henry to use the inch power punch to break free.

Utterly nonsense.

When Grand Master Hsu Yun was taken by the Red Guard and beaten, he didn't use his deadly WCK skills. He simply let them tie him up and beat him. A true bodhisattva in every sense, he would not have adopted Henry Leung, let alone teach him WCK. Hsu Yun did not know WCK, nor did he have any need for it. His understanding of the Shurangama Mantra and Sutra was enough to uphold.

Of course, naive fools will believe any story, no matter how exaggerated.

[chusauli]

Yes, I know you learned very briefly from Henry.I also know there are many stories about FSWC. Howerever no one can say for sure who Henry learned from.The book you mentioned " Wing Chun Warrior" I have never read,but my Si- Dai has the book and told me he can't remember any mention of Henry Leung in his book.I don't believe Duncan Leung has made any officail public statments about Henry or Futsao. Again, if you compare Fut sao alone side Duncan system it's very easy to see they have nothing in common. If the root of Henry WC is Duncan then there would be a connection which I see none at all.It is different in every respect. As far as the history of FSWC we are currently lokking into this and have obtain varifieable information on FSWC from China. When we are ready we may publish it.

I'm sure if you could come forth with verifiable evidence of Fut Sao WCK and how Henry Leung is connected to it, you would.

Read the book. You'll know exactly whom Duncan Leung is talking about. Better yet, call Duncan Leung.

[stonecrusher69]

When we are ready we will come forth,but on our time no one else's. Yes,I know about the stories,again forget the stories look at the man's skill and what he had to offer.When you look at that the rest does not matter.

[punchdrunk]

Pointing out lies and stories and histories in kung fu circles ends up being nothing but gossip. What's next the William Cheung TWC? Or Leung Ting's doctored photo's with Yip Man? The truth is it does come down to the skill of the teacher's more than their history, even Yip Man's history is questioned... Even with Benny Meng being the recent target of gossip, if your in the know it;s different but there's way too much gossip from all the "well wishers"

[Eric_H]

Robert,

all the Shao Lin Zen his-story trying to gain upper hand in WCK lineage is just too much.

Yeah, I enjoy your made-up story about everything coming from white crane. Even though some branches of WC existed before your white crane system, Wong Wa Bo anyone?

Compare the teaching of those who keep saying Zen Zen Shao lin Shao lin or even tan Sau Ng to the following clear description of Zen in youtube ,

one will see, all of these people who create his-story dont even have the basic of Zen but self invention totally off and opposite to the path of Zen.


how can one preach , promote ,and design martial art for anti-qing when one's believe is to let go of attachement which is the totally opposite? make sense only it is a make up story.

Seriously dude, hooked on phonics.

http://www.hookedonphonics.com/

Start with the Pre-K program and we'll work from there.

[eomonroe00]

I am from NYC. I even learned briefly from Henry and even had friends learn from Henry

so what are your thoughts robert, on the similarities between yip man and buddha hand, identical???

I think some Fut Sao people are absolutely skilled,

you are correct, i think fut sao students did quite well in the wong fei hung chi sao competition the past few years.

Of course, naive fools will believe any story, no matter how exaggerated

there is no need to start name calling robert,didn't you post some ideas last year about the wing chun community needing to come together and put all the childish actions and words to rest?

[chusauli]

When we are ready we will come forth,but on our time no one else's. Yes,I know about the stories,again forget the stories look at the man's skill and what he had to offer.When you look at that the rest does not matter.

The issue is the intent behind the stories.

All martial arts are made up. If someone comes forth and says, "I created this from my training..." and not made up some great big nonsense story, it could be accepted.

[chusauli]

[I]so what are your thoughts robert, on the similarities between yip man and buddha hand, identical???

[you are correct, i think fut sao students did quite well in the wong fei hung chi sao competition the past few years.

Of course, naive fools will believe any story, no matter how exaggerated

there is no need to start name calling robert,didn't you post some ideas last year about the wing chun community needing to come together and put all the childish actions and words to rest?

eom,

BH and Yip Man are not the same now.

"Naive" as in believing tall tales, "fools" as in being fooled. Not name calling. I apologize if you are offended. I'll restate, "Being fooled by tall tales and spins on truth, some people will be deceived, no matter how exaggerated, someone will buy the nonsense.

[Pacman]

Yeah, I enjoy your made-up story about everything coming from white crane. Even though some branches of WC existed before your white crane system, Wong Wa Bo anyone?

for once hendrik said something that i agree with.

i dont know for sure but i hav also heard that WC had influence in its origins from Fukkien White Crane. It also had influence from Emei MAs such as Tai Chi too.

[Hendrik]

for once hendrik said something that i agree with.

i dont know for sure but i hav also heard that WC had influence in its origins from Fukkien White Crane. It also had influence from Emei MAs such as Tai Chi too.

Originally Posted by Eric_H View Post
Yeah, I enjoy your made-up story about everything coming from white crane. Even though some branches of WC existed before your white crane system, Wong Wa Bo anyone?

My made up story? hahaha

It is a fact that White crane of Fujian started since mid 1600 and traceable solidly and related to the Tien Dei Wu or Hung Mun goes as far as Taiwan and South East Asia.



Why dont you show your WC existed before mid 1600 with the same trace able solid track record from both the Qing Side and the Han side ?


Until you got that. who made up story?