question about siu nim tao

[Hendrik]

For those who is in the path of Qi cultivation,

The physical body is analogue to a stove. The intention power is analogue to the fire. The breathing is analogue to the wind.


When the Stove is in a proper state, the fire in a proper strenght, the wind in a proper strenght amount, Chi must surface. and one could manage the strenght of the Qi via the strenght of the wind and fire.


clear and simple.


However, without knowing the stove, knowing not the fire and wind and the amount of the strenght. no path to lead into this practice.


It is a technology, and modern science will only prove its existance.

[Hendrik]

W

hy did Grand Master Yip Man practice Siu Nim Tao slowly for any hour?

Go ask GM Ip Man.

Why would he spend an hour practicing the SLT so slowly it took an hour to complete. What were the benefits?

also ask, what were the benefits of day dreaming and fantasy for a life time?

[Vajramusti]

also ask, what were the benefits of day dreaming and fantasy for a life time?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who should be asked and who should comment on day dreaming and fantasy for a lifetime?
Ip Man?

Unclear who, why?

joy chaudhuri

[anerlich]

Yes, a little from my own experience about "conditioning" being activity specific. Back when I was a student I used to jog regularly - about every other day - nothing special but I thought it helped with my general health. One day I was asked to "make up the numbers" for a college football/soccer game - boy was I in for a surprise (even though I played football a lot in my youth). The stop/start nature of a football game placed totally different aerobic requirements on my body compared to the steady pace of my jogging.

I don't doubt this, and I believe in the specificity of training.

However, I had a knee arthroscopy a few months ago - one of the main differences was before the op I couldn't run any significant distance and now I can.

Running 6-8 kilometers 2-3 times a week has improved my grappling cardio significantly. I can get through 5x5 minute rounds with 1 minute rest now without too much trouble, where as before I was having to quit midway through the fourth.

(I'm 54 and sparring guys`10-30 years younger).

All the top fighters cross train, You can't fight all the time and even if you could it's not the smartest way to go.

If you're not a pro fighter, just about any type of training you do is going to be better than doing nothing.

what were the benefits of day dreaming and fantasy for a life time?

IIRC, Kekule realised the structure of the benzene molecule this way.

A number of successful writers have no doubt benefited as well.

Dare I say Hendrik spends too much time fantasising, though apparently without any useful result.

[Hendrik]

also ask, what were the benefits of day dreaming and fantasy for a life time?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who should be asked and who should comment on day dreaming and fantasy for a lifetime?
Ip Man?

Unclear who, why?

joy chaudhuri

Joy,
That is asking ourself.

[Hendrik]

Dare I say Hendrik spends too much time fantasising, though apparently without any useful result.

It is 100% correct from your view.

[Edmund]

That is perfectly correct according to Terence.

NOt so for the USA medical insurance company who include Accupuncture in their catagory and not so for Children’s Hospital of Pennsylvania State University (BTW it has been six months but you still didnt call Professor John E. Neely MD to verify his data
http://www.naturalhealingcenter.com/...e/jixingli.htm

How critical can one think? when one makes conclusion based on one's day dream and not have the first hand knowledge?

I'd remind you AGAIN that Professor Neely is not a good reference!

I tried to contact him and ask and got NOTHING. In other words, your source will provide no info and will not back your theories.

That website is a crock of **** so quit linking it. All those graphs are supposed references to studies which I CANNOT FIND therefore useless. There is no record of Neely doing the experiments other than your dodgy websites.

YOU SHOULD HAVE LOOKED FOR THIS. Not me. *I* can point to my qigong studies in medical research public databases. YOU CANT. Instead you've got stuff on youtube. You've got no grounds to complain about skeptics when you're peddling the dodgiest stuff.

[Hendrik]

I'd remind you AGAIN that Professor Neely is not a good reference!

I tried to contact him and ask and got NOTHING. In other words, your source will provide no info and will not back your theories.

You certainly could give you opinion.

What do you mean you TRied to contact him ... GOT Nothing? be specific please.

could you please officially repeat what Professor Neely told you in writing ? if you have speak with him directly?

Otherwise, why make a conclusion?

That website is a crock of **** so quit linking it. All those graphs are supposed references to studies which I CANNOT FIND therefore useless.

There is no record of Neely doing the experiments other than your dodgy websites.

That mean you have not contacted and communicate directly with Dr. Neely and draw conclusion based on your own speculation right?

In that case, what is the point to commenting?

YOU SHOULD HAVE LOOKED FOR THIS. Not me.

You are the one who like to find out and verify right?
Not me.

*I* can point to my qigong studies in medical research public databases. YOU CANT.

sure.

you could be the best champion in qigong google surfing. that is great.

Instead you've got stuff on youtube. You've got no grounds to complain about skeptics when you're peddling the dodgiest stuff.

Either it is a youtube or a research data those are just communication vehicle, drawing conclusion based on vehicle? where is the logic? none sense right?



it would be appreciate that you communicate without those rude attitude and rude comments.


if you dont like to contact Dr. Neely , just said so. you are not obligate to.
you are also not obligate to reply my post to Terence.

and you are not obligate to reply to this post either.


BTW.
I suggest if you want to reply, make sure you get solid contact with Dr. Neely.

no point to screaming and being rude...and with all your own speculation.etc right? those are just a waste of time /bandwidth and doesnt change a thing on Qi Gong.

There is no point to continous this discussion if the agenda is to win with all cost for ego shake, right?

[Lee Chiang Po]

Hi Chiang Po,

Thanks for your explanation, i think i was thinking along the lines of SLT execution itself alone, while you are thinking of sparring scenarios.



Actually I was not thinking of sparring scenarios. When I was first learning WC I learned to do the SLT with stepping and root shifting combined with my standard basic hand techniques. No kicking, just stepping in and back, and shifting root without actually moving my feet from the neutral postions as well. This was just part of the form as such. And not only were there the 4 unarmed forms you see with most lineages today, but also a form for footwork and shifting. We had a large room with a red concrete floor and on that was painted a large 8 petal flower. On that 8 petal flower were 24 points that radiated out from the center. It was 12 feet from point to point across the flower. It was to give reference for foot placement until you could do it blind. The idea of this form was to facilitate movements either direct or at angles in and out while using the basic step and shift. The idea is to be able to inflict upon your opponent by getting in close and quickly, then avoid his ability to inflict upon you by being able to move outside his effective range just as quickly. All this while maintaining YGKYM, solid rooting foundation, and fluid application of your weapon systems. The stepping SLT gives you a more comfortable application of these weapon systems from the first stages of your training.
On Utube I have seen SLT done both sides at the same time. When I was teaching my son I had him doing this for a time. He could not coordinate his left as well as his right, so doing it both sides at once seemed to help him coordinate. Eventually he started doing it left and then right. It is difficult to do this with leg work though. As if you kick with both feet at once you tend to lose your rooting foundation.

[Edmund]

You certainly could give you opinion.

What do you mean you TRied to contact him ... GOT Nothing? be specific please.

could you please officially repeat what Professor Neely told you in writing ? if you have speak with him directly?

Otherwise, why make a conclusion?

I tried calling and emailing multiple times. He never returned any responses.
You said he published his results and I looked for publications/reports and there were none. He certainly has other published stuff but none on your experiments.

You pointed me to a dead end. You shouldn't give "proof" of scientific evidence that can't be found. You should have made sure it could be found before you said go to Prof Neely.

I'm not making any conclusions. I'm just saying you are an a-hole for continually sending everyone to a guy who can't be reached. I told you he couldn't and you still quote him again on this thread.

You are the one who like to find out and verify right?
Not me.

You are so full of ****.
You talked about "technology", research and science.
You've done none yourself.

Now you're proud of not verifying any of the evidence you've spouted. You shouldn't have quoted the guy in the first place. When I go to look it all up and can't find anything, it's like "Why should I verify? I can say what I like."

BTW.
I suggest if you want to reply, make sure you get solid contact with Dr. Neely.

no point to screaming and being rude...and with all your own speculation.etc right? those are just a waste of time /bandwidth and doesnt change a thing on Qi Gong.

There is no point to continous this discussion if the agenda is to win with all cost for ego shake, right?

I'm not speculating.

Neely was a bust. If anyone else tries to reach him based on your advice, they could get the same run-around as me so I am going to bi-tch about it every time you quote that stupid website.

[-木叶-]

"Concepts" are ideas, mental constructs. The SNT set doesn't "train" ideas.

I do not understand. Does SLT helps in strengthening your body's awareness of centreline? If you say no then you are correct?

That statement is nonsensical. You have just talked about chi/qi from a "scientific point of view." The "scientific point of view" is that chi/qi does not exist.

Very well then we will not argue about whether it exists, if ones development
is up to a point where chi does not exists, then no point hammering it in

Forms are merely a way to "memorize" the movement patterns, tools, etc. of a martial art. While some people might in their fantasy imagine it has other benefits, singing the "abc" song everyday really isn't necessary.

What's the old saw about "a little knowledge"?

Same here.

Hope it helps.

[t_niehoff]

I do not understand. Does SLT helps in strengthening your body's awareness of centreline? If you say no then you are correct?

What do you mean by "centerline"? That's one problem with "concepts": different people give different meanings to the same term.

If you are talking about our midline, do I need a form to "strengthen my awareness" of my midline? I already know where it is. I can find it in the dark.

If, by centerline, you mean "mutual line" (the line between me and my opponent), how can a solo form increase awareness of that (since there is not opponent)?

Very well then we will not argue about whether it exists, if ones development
is up to a point where chi does not exists, then no point hammering it in

If, by "develoment", you mean critical thinking facility, then yes, I'm at the point in my development where I realize that chi/qi is a fantasy or, at best, a metaphor. Just like I no longer believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny or fairies.

But, if you want to believe in fairies, I guess there is no point in hammering it in.

[-木叶-]

What do you mean by "centerline"? That's one problem with "concepts": different people give different meanings to the same term.

If you are talking about our midline, do I need a form to "strengthen my awareness" of my midline? I already know where it is. I can find it in the dark.

If, by centerline, you mean "mutual line" (the line between me and my opponent), how can a solo form increase awareness of that (since there is not opponent)?

Punches in SLT are thrown at the centerline, so does the movement of tan sao and bong sao and so on. Without knowing why we need to do that, and its importance, can a person without any prior knowledge of martial arts start practicing Wing Chun? Do you disagree that when we all start Wing Chun, if there is no Sifu or Sihengdai to guide us, we will base our movements outside of the centerline?

If, by "develoment", you mean critical thinking facility, then yes, I'm at the point in my development where I realize that chi/qi is a fantasy or, at best, a metaphor. Just like I no longer believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny or fairies.

But, if you want to believe in fairies, I guess there is no point in hammering it in.

Your statement that chi is at best, a metaphor, shows that you are exploring too
so is all of us, including me. By saying something is "Santa Claus or Easter Bunny" we totally wipe out any possibility of its existence, laughing at it.

I am sorry but there is no way that as a Wing Chun and Martial arts practitioner
that I can deny the existence of chi for it does exists and is being harnessed by not only me but many many MA practitioners in the world.

[Yoshiyahu]

Terrence you Said Chi or Qi is at best a metaphor.

What is it a Metaphor for?

An also why does doing Tai Chi or Chi Kung improve your feeling of wellness and health in certain areas?

[CFT]

Punches in SLT are thrown at the centerline, so does the movement of tan sao and bong sao and so on. Without knowing why we need to do that, and its importance, can a person without any prior knowledge of martial arts start practicing Wing Chun?

Not all lineages practice tan/bong on centreline so a "one size fits all" approach doesn't and shouldn't apply.

Gulao/Kulo Wing Chun does not even have SNT and the other forms but instead are replaced by a set of discrete drills.

So much for the "benefits" of SNT! Best not to be too prescriptive about what it should and shouldn't do for us since YMMV.