Boxing

[boxerbilly]

[boxerbilly]

These brothers owned the combo model. Goossen's boys.

[boxerbilly]

Mod or Gene, sorry. Please place thread in other arts forum. Not sure how I messed that up. Sorry.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The "secret" to Foreman's walking hook was not only her footwork and lead hand work but because it came from underneath via the blindside.
The "cross defense" is common not only in boxing but MT and even Hung Kuen ( though called by different names).
Many reality based self defense systems use variations of it also and what it does is not only protect the chin and face but, if done correctly, offers SOME protection for the liver as well.

[MarathonTmatt]

wow. foreman was a master. good foot-work staying on the guy.. I would add to sanjuro ronin's comments that such footwork is also found in many chin-na / anti- chin-na techniques in various TCMA systems. but wow that George foreman footage is really something.

edit: not boxing footwork in particular but "sticking" to the other guy. for instance, after foreman throws his right, he has already anticipated that he can slip in his hook. and than when the other guy moves foreman is already able to move in to an advantageous position to unload some more. I guess it reminded me a bit of the maneuvering of some of the chin-na/ anti chin-na techniques I have trained.

[SevenStar]

the cross defense is seen in 52 blocks and is known as skull and crossbones. There are two variations of it in boxing. the regular cross defense - the crab and the philly shell aka the hitman style. foreman was more of a crab user, as was archie moore. mayweather, james toney and sweet pea whitaker are known for the philly shell.

this style is mainly defensive and makes protects the head extremely well. the body tends to be open more, however a lot of boxers lean and in the case of the philly shell, blade their body to the opponent to compensate for that.

[SevenStar]

If the philly shell is going to be discussed, the other major style of defense should be mentioned as well: Peek a boo.

https://youtu.be/d_kbC36JESs

aggressive
bobbing and weaving
excellent for setting up hooks and uppercuts
excellent head and body protection


noted users - mike Tyson, Floyd patterson

[boxerbilly]

My boxing coach was a peek a boo fighter. All 5'3 of him. I never put a glove on the guy when we sparred. Of course he touched me an awful lot. He was a Navy boxer late 50's early 60's I believe.

I myself never used the philly or peekaboo. You need good eyes for that in my opinion. Something I lost at 13 and was prescribed specs. Beautiful styles to watch.

[Kellen Bassette]

the cross defense is seen in 52 blocks and is known as skull and crossbones. There are two variations of it in boxing. the regular cross defense - the crab and the philly shell aka the hitman style.

Not to change the subject, but just a thought...funny how strange the traditional names, (lyrics/poems,) of TCMA seem to many people, without even realizing how much of the same we have in the western arts of boxing and wrestling...imagine how outlandish some of these technique nicknames would be when translated into foreign languages...

[MarathonTmatt]

My boxing coach was a peek a boo fighter. All 5'3 of him. I never put a glove on the guy when we sparred. Of course he touched me an awful lot. He was a Navy boxer late 50's early 60's I believe.

I myself never used the philly or peekaboo. You need good eyes for that in my opinion. Something I lost at 13 and was prescribed specs. Beautiful styles to watch.

One of my grandfathers was a Navy boxer, WW2 era as well as a coach. And I do believe he learnt some "tricks" overseas - Okinawan, etc. I never learnt anything from him though, I don't know much specifics about boxing (no experience in the sport). I am sitting back enjoying the thread though!

[SevenStar]

Not to change the subject, but just a thought...funny how strange the traditional names, (lyrics/poems,) of TCMA seem to many people, without even realizing how much of the same we have in the western arts of boxing and wrestling...imagine how outlandish some of these technique nicknames would be when translated into foreign languages...

While I do agree there, the names in boxing came about differently, I think. Names were given based on city, fighter nickname, etc. For example, the philly shell never really had a name. It was just boxing. But to fight that way was common in Philadelphia, hand the name later. The hitman style was a combination of using a philly shell type defense with constantly pressuring your opponent. This made it an entirely different style, because the philly was typically defensive only. This new style was created and used by Tommy "the hitman" Hearns.
In boxing, there isn't a descriptive, poetic name for any technique.

52 blocks is different. As a prison system, I would imagine those names were intentionally created to disguise what was really going on And to identify where you locked up.

[SevenStar]

Since combos were also addressed, the definition of punches in bunches was sugar Ray Leonard:

https://youtu.be/aX8YgLZvtUc

[SevenStar]

Notice when Leonard is on defense, the arms fold, the waist bends and the feet move - the Philly shell.

https://youtu.be/u_o-zo6u-PI

[SevenStar]

Jabbing from the Philly shell like amir does here is more hitman - like.

https://youtu.be/pFkwLQrn4mM

[boxerbilly]

Baer used an engine as Sifu Sergio calls it, similar to what Sergio speaks of in Cataphract's Martial Man thread.

Also shows Baer briefly training fouls on a bag. Plus a fight clip where Baer uses quarter/ half pivot blows. AKA back hands. A full pivot would be what many of us would call a spinning back fist. These are the blows banned from boxing as to dangerous. Many people are under the impression its that front hand karate type tag backhand. Stating it is to hard to see. Maybe. But Ali used that all the time. Of course he also was not awarded points for blows landing on areas other than the front of the glove. If the backhand lands with the front of the glove it is generally considered a legal jab. Meaning a lot of his jabs did not count. But the killing blow was the half and full pivot blows of old. Along with hacking. One may call those chops. Done with hammer fists, forearms and edge of hand if ungloved.