Why chi sau?

[Hardwork108]

The thing that I find amazing is how people with no significant experience fighting (and not with competent fighters) will ignore, reject, not listen to, etc. the views of people with genuine fighting experience because what they say doesn't fit into their theoretical view of how things should work.

The thing that I find amazing is how people with no significant experience in genuine kung fu training (with competent sifus) will ignore, reject, not listen to, etc. the views of people with genuine kung fu experience because what they say doesn't fit into their theoretical (because they have actually never trained in authentic kung fu) view of how kung fu shouldn't work!

[Knifefighter]

The thing that I find amazing is how people with no significant experience in genuine kung fu training (with competent sifus) will ignore, reject, not listen to, etc. the views of people with genuine kung fu experience because what they say doesn't fit into their theoretical (because they have actually never trained in authentic kung fu) view of how kung fu shouldn't work!

LOL @ competent sifus.

Translation: instructors who have no clue, but have brainwashed their students into believing they know what they are doing even though they have never seen the instructor fight for real outside of some other clueless student and there is absolutely no evidence they have ever fought in their lives other than hearsay and half-truths..

But I am open to having my mind changed. Who is this "genuine" kung fu sifu you have trained with and where is the evidence of him actually being able to apply anything he has taught you?

[Knifefighter]

forgive my ignorance if i am incorrect...

sparring with the DDog Brothers either means that you are a Dog Brother, or that you have some recognisable skills in their world (kali/escrima/petikri tersia/whatever)

dog brothers, i thought, are Inosanto's students - Inosanto is extremely keen on wc and has studied (if wiki is to be believed) from 7 different lineages

why all the wc bagging? is it wc in general or just crap wc?

Having trained with Dan for 8 or 9 years, I had a pretty significant background in WC. I did a lot of full contact with it, but I never felt it came close to comparing to what I consider the more functional systems.

That doesn't mean I don't believe nobody can make it work (at least their own interpretation of it) Just the fantasy, theoretical pretend fighting guys that make up 95% of the WC community and who are heavily represented in the postings here.

Notice how I never bag on the guys like Rick Spain and Allan Orr (both of whom would more than likely manhandle as easily as they would a little child all of the "masters and grandmasters" who seem to be revered here) who are actually out there using, adapting, and modifying their WC and not sitting in their cloistered little schools and posting about their "real-life" experiences and their fantasy "life and death" encounters.

[Hardwork108]

LOL @ competent sifus.

Translation: instructors who have no clue, but have brainwashed their students into believing they know what they are doing even though they have never seen the instructor fight for real outside of some other clueless student and there is absolutely no evidence they have ever fought in their lives other than hearsay and half-truths..

Translation: You have missed out on may aspects of authentic kung fu training, for whatever reason, hence you are putting them down because your mind could not handle the deeper elements that are part and parcel of such training.

Do you consider Dan Inosanto to be a genuine Wing Chun sifu? This an honest question, by the way and does he consider himself to be a GENUINE Wing Chun sifu?

But I am open to having my mind changed.

That is good news.

Who is this "genuine" kung fu sifu you have trained with and where is the evidence of him actually being able to apply anything he has taught you?

I doubt that you would know him by name and no he does not have YouTube clips of himself beating people like you up, LOL!

I believe that LSWNC1 has met him briefly in a seminar. You can ask him about my sifu if you like. Of course, the seminar was about Wing Chun and not YouTube video clips.

[Knifefighter]

T
I doubt that you would know him by name and no he does not have YouTube clips of himself beating people like you up, LOL!

I believe that LSWNC1 has met him briefly in a seminar. You can ask him about my sifu if you like. Of course, the seminar was about Wing Chun and not YouTube video clips.

Ah yes, the unknown authentic kung fu instructor than no one has ever heard of and someone once shook hands with at a seminar.

Yeah, you've got the real deal there alright. How could I ever have doubted you.

Do I consider Dan an authentic kung fu instructor? Fortunately not, otherwise I would have wasted a number of years cloistered in his school getting brainwashed like you have.

[Phil Redmond]

what should i google to bring up these clips?

So basically if there's no video of something then it never happened?? . .
If Dale will give me permission I can email you a clip of some highlights of his fights. Many of them are bare knuckle. He had the clip on youtube once but took it down. So I won't post it or send it without his permission. I've met Dale and I respect him. Though we don't always agree. He's the real deal.

[-木叶-]

Some of the arguments/misunderstanding here can be lessen if the practitioners
take up Chinese language to understand Chinese. You can be amazed by the profoundness of the actual text explanation of Wing Chun.

(This is not intended to be flame bait, i'm just thinking it may help)

[Hardwork108]

Some of the arguments/misunderstanding here can be lessen if the practitioners
take up Chinese language to understand Chinese. You can be amazed by the profoundness of the actual text explanation of Wing Chun.

(This is not intended to be flame bait, i'm just thinking it may help)

Believe me I would if I could.Perhaps when I have organized my life more I will take classes. I don't think that I will be able to master the language but perhaps I can get an insight into the more profound concepts with help from my sifu thrown in.

I have known for a long time that a lot of essence and information is lost when Chinese texts are translated into other languages.

[Hardwork108]

Ah yes, the unknown authentic kung fu instructor than no one has ever heard of and someone once shook hands with at a seminar.

Well he is unknown to you just as so many other authentic kung fu aspects.

There are at least two posters here, besides me, who have met him and at least one of them is a sifu himself.

Yeah, you've got the real deal there alright. How could I ever have doubted you.

I can't answer that but you seem to be young (at least mentally) hence you may one day grow to understand the effectiveness of the Traditional Chinese Martial Arts.

Do I consider Dan an authentic kung fu instructor? Fortunately not,

Well that is more fortunate for the TCMAs in general.

otherwise I would have wasted a number of years cloistered in his school getting brainwashed like you have.

As opposed to "wasting" a number of years practicing the art of Knucklehead Fist and brainwashing yourself into believing that what you do is somehow superior to authentic kung fu training?

[Hardwork108]

So basically if there's no video of something then it never happened?? . .

Perhaps you should also ask that question of Dale the Knifefighter and T_niehoff, who always ask do for evidence of traditional kung fu's effectiveness without bothering to find out for themselves by training kung fu AUTHENTICALLY.

[Graychuan]

So basically if there's no video of something then it never happened?? . .
If Dale will give me permission I can email you a clip of some highlights of his fights. Many of them are bare knuckle. He had the clip on youtube once but took it down. So I won't post it or send it without his permission. I've met Dale and I respect him. Though we don't always agree. He's the real deal.

I would be VERY interested in seeing this. How bout it? Why was it taken down?

[LSWCTN1]

Knifefighter is a original Dog Brother, a 2nd BB in BJJ and his full contact MT and MMA is well known.

You can google "dog brothers" and "Dale Franks" and see what pops up.

And I'd add that whether you like or dislike what Dale writes, he is someone's views that you should listen to and think about. He's an experienced fighter -- which is a rarity here.

The thing that I find amazing is how people with no significant experience fighting (and not with competent fighters) will ignore, reject, not listen to, etc. the views of people with genuine fighting experience because what they say doesn't fit into their theoretical view of how things should work.

Having trained with Dan for 8 or 9 years, I had a pretty significant background in WC. I did a lot of full contact with it, but I never felt it came close to comparing to what I consider the more functional systems.

That doesn't mean I don't believe nobody can make it work (at least their own interpretation of it) Just the fantasy, theoretical pretend fighting guys that make up 95% of the WC community and who are heavily represented in the postings here.

Notice how I never bag on the guys like Rick Spain and Allan Orr (both of whom would more than likely manhandle as easily as they would a little child all of the "masters and grandmasters" who seem to be revered here) who are actually out there using, adapting, and modifying their WC and not sitting in their cloistered little schools and posting about their "real-life" experiences and their fantasy "life and death" encounters.

hi Dale/everyone

NOW i understand your viewpoint - you HAVE had the experience that gives you the right to bag on it.

thats your standpoint and i respect that, i thought there was a lot of pointless wailling about something you didnt really know about, my appologies

someone did make a good point on the forum the other day. he said that its mostly office workers training kung fu nowadays. not fighters born with a 'fighting spirit' as it where

those tend to drift to the arts you advocate - so many 'true' fighters dont actually get to experience real wing chun or other TCMA. they then complete the 'system' (forms) and go and teach a whole bunch of people

and so the cycle continues...

you actually study a traditional art (the Kali/Silat), but have managed to find a good teacher, so you can see the benefit to it.

i took Petikri tersia classes (among others) for about 6 months from a world stickfighting medallist (cant remember if he won silver or gold) under the guise of JKD. it wasnt JKD and i didnt enjoy the most of the lessons but i stuck there for the 6 months because of the Patikri Tersia

gotta run

all the best

[Pacman]

So basically if there's no video of something then it never happened?? . .

huh? i asked you how to find the clips. i didnt say it never existed

[Pacman]

The thing that I find amazing is how people with no significant experience fighting (and not with competent fighters) will ignore, reject, not listen to, etc. the views of people with genuine fighting experience because what they say doesn't fit into their theoretical view of how things should work.

here we go again. no one has the experience, or at least no experience with competent fighters like you and dale.

i will say one thing, you can have years of experience but that doesnt mean anything. often times i will meet people with 10 years of experience in boxing or karate...or even wing chun...and they fight with no skill just kamikaze agression as if they didnt learn a thing all those years.

you dont just need experience fighting "competent" people, you need to know how to learn.

you can talk about how you fight with competent people all you want, but that doesnt necessarily bolster your rep.

[Phil Redmond]

huh? i asked you how to find the clips. i didnt say it never existed

Sorry, I wasn't slamming you. I was just thinking about how video has become such an vital part of modern day MA. I had once mentioned that I fought in some full contact events in the 80'-90's. Someone asked if there was video. Not too many people had video cameras back then. They were big bulky things Only a small group of NY fighters would have witnessed my fights. I recently went to an MMA event in NJ and met a well known NY area fighter that I fought. He remembered or fight and we took some pics together. I had mentioned that particular fight to one of the people I was with. At least he got to hear it from the source. So again, I was not slamming you. Just venting like now.....lol.