June 4th, 1989

[David Jamieson]

Remember it.

tiananmen

[MightyB]

Dude- Now they'll ban KFM in China! Don't ya know y'all can't post stuff like that?

[David Jamieson]

Dude- Now they'll ban KFM in China! Don't ya know y'all can't post stuff like that?

don't tow that line man.

china needs to look at itself for not only this, but for a lot of things.

examine the self thoroughly or growth and prosperity cannot occur.

[SPJ]

the student demands for more freedom and democrasy were "good".

most of the "demands" were being met by the government ever since then.

1. It was Deng's decision to march against the crowd and restore "order" on the largest square on the planet.

local army did not want to move against its own people.

Deng had to move in troops from southwest China to do the "dirty" work.

there was no honor to move against own people that one took oath to protect.

--

2. Premier Zhao, the first engineer to open up China and under auspice of Deng, was house arrested in Beijing till he died. He stood with the people and the students and never changed his position.

3. the events will be overturned or ping fan but not now. the hardliners that sided with suppression with force are still in power. However, China has a long history. So the truth and positive statement about the events and the sacrifice of the students will be restored some day. The truth always stands out in the end. The time will prove them right.

---

[Kansuke]

examine the self thoroughly or growth and prosperity cannot occur.

The problem is that massive growth and prosperity have occurred since then.

[David Jamieson]

the student demands for more freedom and democrasy were "good".

most of the "demands" were being met by the government ever since then.

1. It was Deng's decision to march against the crowd and restore "order" on the largest square on the planet.

local army did not want to move against its own people.

Deng had to move in troops from southwest China to do the "dirty" work.

there was no honor to move against own people that one took oath to protect.

--

2. Premier Zhao, the first engineer to open up China and under auspice of Deng, was house arrested in Beijing till he died. He stood with the people and the students and never changed his position.

3. the events will be overturned or ping fan but not now. the hardliners that sided with suppression with force are still in power. However, China has a long history. So the truth and positive statement about the events and the sacrifice of the students will be restored some day. The truth always stands out in the end. The time will prove them right.

---

true.

there is a definite need for change, but for today, we remember those who lost their lives to the injustice of tyranny.

[sanjuro_ronin]

A valuable lesson learned for all protesters, protest all you want, but get out of the way of tanks !

While having a martyr complex is great, caring more about the success of your goals is far better in the long run, for both your health and the mission at hand.

[uki]

Remember it.

coming soon to a way of life near you.

[1bad65]

coming soon to a way of life near you.

It's amazing to see a socialist upset at what a socialist/communist country did to it's own people. Of course he says more socialism here is a wonderful idea.

But those people who stood for freedom deserve to have their bravery and courage remembered and admired.

[uki]

It's amazing to see a socialist upset at what a socialist/communist country did to it's own people. Of course he says more socialism here is a wonderful idea.

and what he says apparently goes.

But those people who stood for freedom deserve to have their bravery and courage remembered and admired.

of course... next time lets pray that those who stood, will continue to stand.

[KC Elbows]

It's amazing to see a socialist upset at what a socialist/communist country did to it's own people. Of course he says more socialism here is a wonderful idea.

The thinking that led to the massacre predates communism in China by many centuries. When your population is that large, movements can very quickly become very destructive, and it was also a view of dynastic China that sometimes, it is better to overreact in putting such movements down than letting them get out of control. The Boxer rebellion is only one example of the speed and destruction that mass movements could gain, and it not the worst. Before Boxers were stopped, many thousands died.

It is highly likely that, had the GMD gained control of China, they would have dealt with mass demonstrations the same way, especially considering how traditional some of their leaders were.

Not saying communists can't be repressive, but that China has long traditions that have not died to this day when it comes to some things. Honestly, there are reams of scholarship that point to the influence of dynastic thinking within the Chinese communist party and it's propaganda and history.

[uki]

When your population is that large, movements can very quickly become very destructive, and it was also a view of dynastic China that sometimes, it is better to overreact in putting such movements down than letting them get out of control.

falun gong anyone?

[SPJ]

actually, KC is sort of correct.

There were student/people demo in all major cities.

Local army, I think 45th and 38th army were in support of Zhao, so their guns and tanks were placed strategically thruout beijing and facing outward. or away from the crowd.

They were graduately "rotated" out of the city.

The Si Chuan troops in support of Deng graduately replaced these positions.

--

meaning what

it could have been a civil war, one side in support of Zhao, and the other side in support of Deng.

--

some key posts and generals in support of Zhao were quickly replaced. some generals were quickly promoted to key positions.

--

all the public officials in support of students had a black file. their promotions were all derailed or not to be placed either inside or outside of CPC.

--

on the surface, you see the events on tian an men square.

beneath the surface, the political fates of many were effected by it.

--

this would be the same with KMT.

--

[GeneChing]

And on this anniversary, we lose both Shek Kin and David Carradine. That's just plain creepy.

[uki]

That's just plain creepy.

creepy being another word for non-co-incidental...