to all 8 step students

[robertwilliam]

Yes, 8 stepsifu - that's the way I was taught - and actually, you mentioned something about the stepping, and footwork - you know this already, but most of it is in the first 4 levels - I used to think that the begining levels had some bogus stuff like the kicking combinations, and even the ten body coordinations, but it's like an onion, you just keep on pealing back layers and finding things.I'm glad that my sifu had an advanced class going because we touched on many things that linked where we were then and the high gold levels and beyond.Other shi# I figured out was from observing Ba Gua ,and Hsing Yi stuff.

[8stepsifu]

for getting people coordinated enough to do kung fu. Also it you do them with actuall springing legs, they develop power. They are actually traditional to 8 step and not new on the scene.

They are the Shi Lu Tan Tui or ten roads tan tui.

The even older name is lo han tan tui.

Kicking combos are probably new.


also there are lots of footworks and even some low mantis within gold mantis 1-5, it's just a matter of recognising it. There are loads and loads of cool stuff in the gold mantis + applications. I learn a new aspect to 8 Step every time I teach them.

The application as of standardization have a wide mixture of finishing throws and hand changes. It's a tremendous amount of information, trouble is, most people want to blow past it to get to the "secrets" when lots of the "secrets" are right in front of them. I recently realized this and I've been just staring at the wealth of information in my note books

don't worry be happy

[6hmantis]

Hey andy,
Why dont you just ask sun to prove once and forall he is who he says he is. If he is Grandmaster he should have pics or sort. If it was a public ceremony and people where there than you should have some names. Please dont take this the wrong way, if I am wrong I will formally apologize. There is too much conflicting stories on this subject, let put it to rest.
LOVE YA :D

[hymenopus_coronadus]

Pi Si... All James Sun has to do is post disciple certificates from Grandmaster Wei or even a traditional picture of Wei and him together.

Also there is no such thing as a "Sole Inheritor" of a kung fu style...Just recognized masters who have trained longer.

[xygie]

The 8 STEP PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU ACADEMY OF TAIPEI in Taiwan, Master Zuo Xian Fu. Master Zuo lived with Grandmaster Wei 5 years before died.

[8stepsifu]

http://www.choyleefut.com.au/sifu.asp

Choy li fut and 8 step are two of the last complete systems left, both with generation inheritors.

don't worry be happy

[xygie]

I don't think James is Grandmaster Wei's "son". If he is, he should have a few pictures of himself with "dad". ;)

[8stepsifu]

you dip****, no one said he was his son, he is the sole inheritor, the keeper of the system. The same organizational structure minus the nepotism


Oh god, I got sucked into this **** thing again.


I knew about that guy in Taiwan, so what? Master Sun knows that guy. What exactly is your point. If you want to learn form him then go, if you want to learn from someone who has the whole picture, then...your out of luck :p

don't worry be happy

[6hmantis]

Andy,
Did you happen to find any old pics of Master Wei and James Sun. Or, any names of the people who where at the ceremony? Thanks

[pain_junkie]

Okay, I've got a quick question about body coordinations(sp?)? This goes out to anyone in 8 step, but especially rookies. Do you guys like to analyze the body coordinations? I've found that sometimes it helps me to focus on what they do. I realize that you woulnd't use the EXACT movements in a reality situation, but that they represent movements and applications you could use. So I find it helps me to think about their applications. To say to yourself "okay, so what exactly is going on in this situation" instead of just moving from one end of the school to the other doing some punches and kicks. Anybody else find this helpful

[on-jer]

8 Step, as taught by master Wei, consists primarily of:

8 postures, 8 moving steps, 8 kicks, 8 fists. The Small Box forms - 7 Hands, Little Water-wheel, Le Pe, Big Water-wheel and the 6 chapters. 7 Hands, Le Pe and the 6 Chapters each have two-man forms associated with them. This format is outlined in his books.

Master Wei did have a form of Tai-Chi. He was also quite adept with the 3-section-staff.

Master Wei was an admirer of Master Chang's Shuai-Chiao and said, "If one could learn Tong Long and Shuai-Chiao, it would be like teaching a tiger to fly.

In our class, we learn Tai-Chi, Ba Gua, Hsing-I, Tong Long, Chin-Na and Shuai-Chiao.

None of Master Wei's teaching was "filler", nor was there any public vs. private teaching.

Also - FYI - Master Wei was not any kind of doctor - he worked in the cafeteria in the General High School.

[8stepsifu]

yes the body coordinations have applications and they are very obvious, most of the body coordinations come strait out of the sets.

Again one of Master Wei's public students says that Master Wei knew far less than he did. Funny how that works.

Of course he wouldn't tell his public students that they were public students. Why would he, to give them greedy ambitions??

Admirer of Shuai Chiao? Of course he was, he knew it. In that video clip he did a couple of throwing long forms in the set. The application to those forms ends in a throw, if you actually do that long form you understand that it trains the same body dynamics as throwing. It looks just like a shuai chiao throwing long form. Wow what a coincidence.

Why am I trying to convince you......this is why there was a public face in the first place. To keep you in the dark.

You are a student, you need to look at it from a teachers perspective. If a student demands an application to a set, you show them the most karate application that you can. Which BTW involve no throwing.

His so called admiration was a big grandfatherly hint for his public students to make their public stuff that much more effective. He showed hand techniques and told them to learn throwing. 8 Step throwing is specialized and incorporated into the hand techniques. Not two seperate things. Thats what was hidden.

No throwing?, only 3 three sets?, whats next? Are you gonna say that their are only 6 joint locks instead of 108? Are there only 3 kicks? :rolleyes:

don't worry be happy

[pain_junkie]

Yes, I realize that they are relatively obvious. I was just wondering if it helps anyone else remember and use them? When you were learning body cordinations for the first time, did you just memorize the moves or did it help you to think of the applications. I was in Taekwando for four years and they never encouraged us to look for/at applications. It was basically just "here, do this move...then this..then this.. Okay, here's a red belt". I quit when I was 11 because I realized I would never get anything out of it. The black belts had beer guts, the instructor didn't give a crap, etc...

[xygie]

They didn't even exist before 1995. And, after James made them up...they changed about 10 times and were still being "standardized" 6 years later, just like the sets and all the other material he teaches.

How do you get 3 sets out of On Jer's post...He notes 10 regular sets and 8 two man sets. You obviously know nothing about the 6 Chapter Sets. There are video tapes of Master Wei performing them. I have seen some of the footage. They are a lot more intricate and complex than the standard 4 Small Box Sets you are familiar with.

If you want to talk about "filler", just look at the worthless "lead-ins" you guys do for your throws and joint locks. Ask Kevin who made them up. Original to the system... I don't think so.

And, finally...I guess we are just going to have to let a judge decide if James was a "private" student. ;)

[8stepsifu]

Traditionally they were called Lo Han Tan Tui and then Shi Lu tan Tui or 10 roads body coordinations. Their have been changes because they are a tool for teaching. He is the Grandmaster and can make those changes. It is his system.

Yes you are incouraged to look at applications. I personally make sure that my students are thinking about the art rather than just swallowing it. I encourage people to as "why?" I ask "why" myself.

Yes Sifu Kevin did come up with some of the prestandadized lead ins. They worked. Now the lead in are a lot different and diverse. And it really doesn't matter, they are examples of theories and princibles. All of the applications are 8 step applications, they were just different. Now because of concrete thinkers such as yourself. Its not about the packaging, it's about the product.

This is not a uniquely chinese thing. It is the same as the chocolate guilds in france or the German Masons or any other artistic craft. They are secretive, closed off and ensure quality that is associated with the NAME. The successor of the chocolate factory may change the packaging, but the recipe is the same. You're nit picking about the packaging, so you've gone off to pack some fudge instead. Thats your choice.

If it comes to court then Master Sun will actually have a reason to pull out the pictures and documentation. He's not doing it for a web forum.

face it....as loud as you shout, your still not that special

don't worry be happy