Blast From the Past

[anerlich]

I have mostly ignored this thread one I noticed T spamming it, but:

No, there is no chi geak training in TWC.

In my experience this is true. However, Rick Spain did teach me two dummy sets which have a number of leg reaping, sweeping, and plucking moves which are essentially similar, and not that far removed from some drills I was taught by a 6th dan judoka who trains at the BJJ academy I attend.

Doing them on a human is more effective than on the dummy, but then that's true for just about everything.

I'm usually very respectful but I must say that you are an A**.

I agree with both assertions made in that sentence.

Isn't it sad that the best evidence you have is what others say about him? IMO that speaks for itself.

I guess that's true of you as well, T.

William Cheung in my esperience enjoys making provocative statements and denigrating his peers. T is probably more like him than he cares to admit.

I am not able to afford our fees.

Sell your computer and cancel your ISP account. Help all of us as well as yourself.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Thank you, Russell...and I agree with you.

[Ultimatewingchun]

I thought I'd post this here. It's a couple of videos I just came across on youtube of Tommy Carruthers - the JKD student of Ted Wong who was one of those guys featured in the recent documentary: "How Bruce Lee Changed the World". His school is in Scotland.

Check this out: (Warning: the first one is probably best seen without the sound)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6Jd...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTM6...c-HM-fresh+div

[Ultimatewingchun]

I'm ending my participation on this thread. Terence Niehoff, of all people, is being protected by the moderator.

He's deleted two of my posts, and while I can see how the first one may have been considered somewhat inflammatory, (although justified, imo); nonetheless, all the second one really amounted to was just a challenge to Niehoff to put up a video of himself doing something - or shut up.

It gets deleted. Pathetic.

Good-bye.

[chusauli]

In my experience this is true. However, Rick Spain did teach me two dummy sets which have a number of leg reaping, sweeping, and plucking moves which are essentially similar, and not that far removed from some drills I was taught by a 6th dan judoka who trains at the BJJ academy I attend.

Doing them on a human is more effective than on the dummy, but then that's true for just about everything.


William Cheung in my esperience enjoys making provocative statements and denigrating his peers. T is probably more like him than he cares to admit.

From what I understand of those two TWC kicking sets, pretty much everything is in there. The only difference is the way they're taught. One is taught through form, the other as a partner exercise. And I agree a lot of the Judo Ashi Waza are very close to Chi Gerk.

And from my experience with William Cheung, I would agree with Andrew's statement of making provocative statements and and denigrating his peers. You could also read his autobiography and get the same general idea.

[t_niehoff]

hi sifu victor re mster cheungs comments chi gerk , i think he is right how the heck, are you going to get into a postion , to use it against a thai ? no way i have a video of my ex sifu doing it and i thought it was olny for pratice, i hated doing it re my balace i think its olny for tradional purose olny regards russell sherry

If you train some muay thai or watch some muay thia fights, you'll see that they have "chi gerk" type training (though in a realistic way) and use their legs effectively in the clinch. Just as chi sao teaches us contact (attached fighting) skills, chi gerk teaches us various leg tactics/skill for attached fighting (when we are close).

However, when you don't see WCK as an close-range, inside, attached fighting method but as an outside fighting method (like kickboxing) then of course you arenot going to see the usefulness of that sort of thing.

[Phil Redmond]

If you train some muay thai or watch some muay thia fights, you'll see that they have "chi gerk" type training (though in a realistic way) and use their legs effectively in the clinch. Just as chi sao teaches us contact (attached fighting) skills, chi gerk teaches us various leg tactics/skill for attached fighting (when we are close).

However, when you don't see WCK as an close-range, inside, attached fighting method but as an outside fighting method (like kickboxing) then of course you arenot going to see the usefulness of that sort of thing.

My WC is also close-range, inside, attached fighting yet I don't need chi guek. I use leg checks instead.

[Phil Redmond]

I thought I'd post this here. It's a couple of videos I just came across on youtube of Tommy Carruthers - the JKD student of Ted Wong who was one of those guys featured in the recent documentary: "How Bruce Lee Changed the World". His school is in Scotland.

Check this out: (Warning: the first one is probably best seen without the sound)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6Jd...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTM6...c-HM-fresh+div

Whoa, a white Bruce Lee.

[Phil Redmond]

It seems that some people seem t think that TWC is a "long range" fighting system. It's a fighting that covers all standup ranges. Like all WC should.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Sugar Ray Robinson. Middleweight champion of the world. This guy was awesome! Btw, the term, "the-best-pound-for-pound-fighter" started with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-gG2_JUqZE&feature=fvw

[Ultimatewingchun]

...but again, best watched with the sound off. Just a silly distraction.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joFWO...eature=related

[t_niehoff]

My WC is also close-range, inside, attached fighting yet I don't need chi guek. I use leg checks instead.

"Leg checks" are part of what chi gerk teaches. Chi gerk is just a drills, an exercise, to teach various leg skills/tactics. Whether you personally use them or not, that doesn't mean someone else - like one of your students - might not find those things useful. They might want to do more than just "check" an opponent's legs -- they may want to use their legs offensively or learn how to deal with an opponent who does.

But I'm not saying anyone needs the drill -- just like they don't need chi sao either. It's just a drill. It's the skills that are important.

[t_niehoff]

It seems that some people seem t think that TWC is a "long range" fighting system. It's a fighting that covers all standup ranges. Like all WC should.

My view is that WCK is an attached fighting method, not a noncontact fighting method. Of course, the method includes the skills to get in from the outside (to gain attachment). But WCK doesn't have the tools to STAY and fight on the outside (like boxing, MT, kickboxing, savate, etc.).

[Phil Redmond]

. . . But WCK doesn't have the tools to STAY and fight on the outside (like boxing, MT, kickboxing, savate, etc.).

Most definitely wrong. Personally I refrain from saying what "WCK" has or doesn't have since I haven't studied every WC linage in depth.

[t_niehoff]

Most definitely wrong. Personally I refrain from saying what "WCK" has or doesn't have since I haven't studied every WC linage in depth.

You don't need to study every WCK lineage in depth to know what WCK is -- we all have the same elements (tools) in the curriculum. That core is what makes it WCK.

All anyone needs to do is look at what tools outside (noncontact) fighting methods (boxing, MT, savate, kickboxing, etc.) have (and they all have pretty much the same things because they need to) and compare that to WCK's tools. Just like WCK doesn't have the tools to fight on the ground, WCK deson't have the tools to stay on the outside and fight. What works on the outside is kickboxing or its variations.

The other thing to do is to simply fight COMPETENT kickboxers and see whether or not you (the WCK person) can use the tools of WCK as you have trained to use themin that context. The thing is, whenever we see that, what wesee is the WCK go out the window and the WCK practitioner doing poor kickboxing.