boxing/wrestling IMO better than Mantis Kung-Fu

[Grappling-Insanity]

I think that any1 with equal training in boxing and crosstrained with wrestling coul defeat some1 with equal experience in Kung-Fu. Because these are constantly contact fighting. THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST. If you disagree with my opinion tell me why and explain dont just flame me.

[Kiasyd]

This IS a troll post :p

-- Kiasyd

[Watchman]

>>>>>Because these are constantly contact fighting.<<<<<

If you are constanly contact fighting with your kung-fu, then what's the difference?

Don't make the mistake of assuming that all of us kung-fu guys do nothing more than forms practice to pop music.



Sunt hic etiam sua praemia laveli
"Here too virtue has its due reward."

[Grappling-Insanity]

I was a little tired when i wrote that post. What I mean by that is there is a major difference between the training methods. In boxing your body daily absorbs punishment. It is more realistic and closer to actuall street combat. I meant by the original post that the conflict be street orianted. In most street fight scenerios(sp?) the main stand up attack is punches. In boxing you are conditioned to take these full contact blows daily and how to avoid them. They also teach how to dish them out. And dont state that they would be unexpecting the kung-fu kicks.

The wresling cross training combined with boxing avoidance techniques would probably be able to deal with most kicks. The wrestling side would also be able to take it to the ground. In this situation most kung-fu does little to no training. I'm not one of those grappling people that says 98% go to the ground. I dont believe in utilising pure wrestling or submissions I believe in using them in cunjuction with strikes and street fighting techniques.

Now I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone here merely bringing up a point. If your training kung-fu or any onther TMA for the street. You then have to use full contact training and realisic conditions. Dont train for the counter to the spinning heel kick, rather train for the counter to the right haymaker.If you want self defence then you need to realize this.

[Kiasyd]

Like I said.... Troll :p

-- Kiasyd

[Watchman]

>>>>>In most street fight scenerios(sp?) the main stand up attack is punches.<<<<<

>>>>>You then have to use full contact training and realisic conditions.<<<<<

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

>>>>>In boxing you are conditioned to take these full contact blows daily and how to avoid them. They also teach how to dish them out.<<<<<

Hmmmmmm, I guess the full-contact and power training that I undergo doesn't qualify just because it's kung fu.

>>>>>The wresling cross training combined with boxing avoidance techniques would probably be able to deal with most kicks. The wrestling side would also be able to take it to the ground. In this situation most kung-fu does little to no training.<<<<<

Really?! I guess the mat training I was doing last night was just a figment of my imagination!

I know what you're trying to get at here, G-I, and I know where you're coming from. Don't assume that "most kung fu" (as you put it) is ALL kung fu. The stuff you probably saw at the local McKwoon is not representative of the meat-and-potatoes-ruff-and-tumble stuff that a lot of us study.

BTW, anyone want to tell me why I'm posting on the NPM forum? I'm waiting for the Gestapo to drag me off. :eek:



Sunt hic etiam sua praemia laveli
"Here too virtue has its due reward."

[Kiasyd]

quote:
-----------------------------------------------
* BTW, anyone want to tell me why I'm posting on * the NPM forum? I'm waiting for the Gestapo to * drag me off.
-----------------------------------------------

Maybe it's because you're a troll hater and chases them in every board around? :)

-- Kiasyd

[Watchman]

Ah, that could be it!

[NorthernMantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Dont train for the counter to the spinning heel kick..[/quote]


We don’t. We train for the charging elbow to the ribs followed by the rolling backfist used as a set up for something else. I don’t know where you got that kind of information from,no offense intended :) . Kung fu, especially praying mantis doesn’t use those types flashy kicks of kicks…well ther are some really neat looking ones but not like what you might think of,e.g. tkd kicks,big diference in kicks and philosophy. Don’t get it mixed up the OTHER MANTIS styles but my style does have a hook kick but it’s rarely used since you have to turn your back on the opponent. Most of the kicks are low (even in mine’s which is combined with the Tam Tui style,a well known kicking style that kicks from a lot of positions high or low).

Do you mean mean kung fu in general or just praying mantis?Because here are a lot of styles that are as different as night and day and that alone cannot be said.I can however vouch for northern mantis if you mean to ask about mantis ( or some because I don’t know most of them) but I can tell you this… norhtern praying mantis is a very efficient and agresseive style with elbows,knees,breaks,different manipulations,close range,long range fighting,cotrolling the opponent,using the back of the wrist for strikes,forearms,shins,head butts,fingers,back of hands,even shoulders, usage of anything as a weapon like chairs,pens,chains,broomssticks,ect..,uprooting,jo ints between the fingers(knuckle punches?),using the opponents own energy and weight againts himself,dirty tricks,punches (different types),kicks(different types also),internal and external CONDITIONING,as well as internal and external types of strikes(like the phoenix eye and palm strikes to hurt the internal organs and external like the hammer fist to break the collar bone and holds) ,blocks,parries,evasions,kooking,grabbing and what ever else there is.It is a well rounded ,if not complete style,or styles since there are 12 mantis syles.That’s why I think praying mantis would do well againts any opponent regardless of style.

No we don’t fight down on the ground,because I know you’re going to bring that up, since we try to keep the fight going to the ground and yes stances do work because I have used them before againts bigger opponents and even someone[my step cousin] who tried to wrestle me to the ground.By the way boxing is not the best since I’ve sparred someone who trained in boxing before (he was an amateur, not a professional so don’t jump the gun).I was startled by his evasion techinques at first,like you said boxing has good evasion techniques, and got hit but I just attacked his center point of gravity (you can bob and weave so much but there’s apoint that stays where it is unless you’r jumping around) and veered off in the direction where he was coming up and bam I messed up his rhythm.Don’t worry about the style worry about the person.No I’m no saying I’m the best fighter because I’m not.I would get pummelled by that guy in the picture up there.Hey I’m only 5’5” and 120 lbs!I’m just an ant compared to my jkd friend who towers 6’4” and is probably between 180 to 200+lbs!

Yes there are schools out there that train full contact.My particular style doesn’t sparr full contact much anymore because there have been people in our style who have died.I myself can’t tell you what school does what since I only know what goes on in just my mantis style,plus I don’t pay that much attention to the tournament scene or the full contact bouts like kuoshu or san shou.I just bounce from day to day trying to do the best that I can be.

Sorry if I might have come of rude. I apologize if I did. Please don’t get stuck with the myth that all kung fu guys just do fancy kicks, some styles barely kick at all, just as you wouldn’t want people to think that all grappling arts are the same. Best of luck to you and train hard.

Watchman
BTW I’m waiting for immigration to drag me off. ;) What a coinkydink!:D How’s things in The Promised Land?I had a friend who was from palestine and went to Israel for a couple of years.

"Always be ready"

[This message was edited by NorthernMantis on 05-10-01 at 03:44 PM.]

[This message was edited by NorthernMantis on 05-10-01 at 04:08 PM.]

[NorthernMantis]

Oops mistook hooking for kooking.My mistake.

"Always be ready"

[Magnus750]

I trained Seven Star Mantis with Western Boxing and jjj, and I can tell you that the fajing and Iron Palm training from Seven Star Mantis puts you power lightyears ahead of anyone who just uses their bodyweight. I once KO'ed a 295lbs. 31 year old toughman contestant when I weighed 154lbs. and was 16 years old. I just hit him in the head so hard that he dropped to his knees and his mouth piece fell out. Now, was it boxing because we were "boxing" ? Well, we were fighting in a ring with gloves on, but the power generation was from fajing. Even though my opponent wasn't that skilled, he outweighed me by about 140lbs., and I wasn't trying to hit him as hard as I could have. I was using a left hook to set up an overhand right, and that left hook was all it took.

Now, I know that most of the MMA crowd doesn't like it when you point out the advantages of power training, but it does make all the difference. Just like a wrestler who lifts will have a huge advantage over a wrestler who doesn't, so a boxer who trains for power will have a huge advantage over one who just puts on the leather and flails.

You should also point out that strength training makes a world of difference, especially on the ground and resisting a takedown. A fighter who powerlifts will always have an advantage over others who do not. I have powerlifted since age 10, and I have always had a strength advantage, so I can tell you from experience that power and strength, which are attributes that every fighter needs, are more valuable than any one style, although there are definitely better ways of training offered by different styles.

That being said, I would say that a style that emphasizes hitting with the elbows and boxing punches combined with fajing and Iron Palm would be the best punching style, while wrestling with jj subs would make the ultimate grappling style.

[Watchman]

NorthernMantis: I live in St. George, Utah -different Promised Land. :D Still a desert, though. 97 degrees yesterday, and all the girls dress accordingly. ;)

[NorthernMantis]

Watchman-
lol!My bad

Magnus750-

Good input.Nice to have someone exchange ideas without a flame war for a change. :cool:

"Always be ready"