Case Ruled Justifiable Defense By Prosecutor

[Becca]

Trinidad Man Who Choked Man To Death Won't Be Charged
Case Ruled Justifiable Defense By Prosecutor

TRINIDAD, Colo. -- Prosecutors won't file charges in the death of a Trinidad man after a fight two months ago.

Las Animas County District Attorney Frank Ruybalid says he believes that a jury or a judge would find two people allegedly connected to the case not guilty.

Thirty-six-year-old Corey Neal died at a hospital April 14. Police said Neal and another man had been involved in an argument at another man's apartment when Neal left, then returned later and the argument resumed.

Authorities say that argument turned physical and Neal pulled a knife. The third man allegedly put a choke hold on Neal to try to stop the fight.

Ruybalid says the man "acted in justifiable defense of himself or another person."

Neal later died of asphyxiation due to esophageal trauma.

[BoulderDawg]

Yeah...so?

Given the facts here this case looks fairly straight forward.

[Becca]

I found it interesting. Maybe needs something about nekkid people or flan to make it more on topic for this board, but still interesting.


You here about people using matial arts against armed folks getting hurt. I found it very germain that this guy actually used his martial arts the right way against and armed assailent. And that he's not going to be procescuted for defending himself. It's like 3 martial arts myths busted in one case example. You can use your art to defend yourself in a knife fight. You can even kill someone and not get charged. But you got to actually be in the "right" as opposed to being simply Self-righteous.

[SPJ]

I was going to say run

or grab some chair or stool to distance your self from the knife wielding arm/hand.

or again run.

--

[BoulderDawg]

From the way I read it: This guy was threatening somebody with a knife and a third person jumped in and applied a choke hold.....

Nothing in the article mentioned martial arts. Also it doesn't take a lot of martial skill to choke somebody out. Especially if they grab while your attention is directed else where and also if they are stonger than you. I see this as different as if some MMA fighter was involved.

From the way I see, short of being there, one has no choice than to drop the charges because of reasonable doubt.

Did the guy continue to choke long after the victim had dropped the knife and was laying there totally limp? Probably but given the circumstances there is no way to know that for sure.

[Lee Chiang Po]

If you can manage to come in under the knife arm and secure a rear choke, you can apply lots of pressure against the wind pipe and the main artery feeding the brain. The knife hand can not reach you from any angle and in about 5 seconds after completely shutting off the blood flow the assailant will become unconscious. Just holding another 5 or 10 seconds can screw up the brain perminently or even kill. In this case I think there was damage to the wind pipe, which would have or could have killed the guy even if he let him go quickly.

[Mr Punch]

****, BD, you're a fishwife! What the hell is your complaint? If you're not interested, why don't you **** off back to the pointless political behemoth?

Thanks for the thread Becca. I think the relevant points to anyone interested in SD and MA are:

1) The third guy came in from the back (not directly threatened himself - which means it could be argued to be not technically self-defence) yet still got judged 'defence'.

2) He used a potentially lethal hold (esp if he wasn't an MA) without trying anything else. Of course that was the right thing to do against someone with a knife, but for the courts to recognise that may be a step in the right direction.

3) This is not an 'instant' tech, like shooting him in the head would have been; it takes a few seconds to get on, which again has implications for the legal aspects.

The knife hand can not reach you from any angle...

You sure about that?

[David43515]

If you can manage to come in under the knife arm and secure a rear choke, you can apply lots of pressure against the wind pipe and the main artery feeding the brain. The knife hand can not reach you from any angle and in about 5 seconds after completely shutting off the blood flow the assailant will become unconscious. Just holding another 5 or 10 seconds can screw up the brain perminently or even kill. In this case I think there was damage to the wind pipe, which would have or could have killed the guy even if he let him go quickly.

I for one would LOVE to see a choke hold where you can`t be cut from any angle. He`s lucky the guy with the knife either paniced or was possibly disarmed by the person he originally threatened.( The article doesn`t give any specifics as to what happened other than the fact that the guiy with the knife died later from his injuries.) If you put an armed man in a choke hold without controling his hands somehow, there`s nothing to keep him from cutting his way out of the choke. If he can touch you, he can cut you.

[AdrianK]

It's like 3 martial arts myths busted in one case example.

Not really. Judges opinions vary far and wide, as well as the skill and will of the prosecutor versus the skill and will of your defense attorney.

Nothing about a death is cut and dry in the US Legal system. Nothing. Plenty of people go to jail every year simply because of the lack of a competent defense.

[uki]

a recent incident around my neck of the woods goes something like this... there was a 16 year old that got a girlfriend, her ex boyfriend didn't like that... so he gathered 3 of his buddies and went to beat the kid up at his house - now this guy was 18... the 16 year old was home alone with his pitbull - the guys came and tried to get him to come out of the house... they leave and come back later, this time they break down the front door and the 16 year old kid sticks his pitbull on the guy while stabbing him with a knife... the guy dies in the foyer. no charges filed on the kid... self defense all the way and he even gets to keep the dog. what a way to go eh? no one is going to mess with that kid now. gotta love pennsylvania...

[Becca]

****, BD, you're a fishwife! What the hell is your complaint? If you're not interested, why don't you **** off back to the pointless political behemoth?

Thanks for the thread Becca. I think the relevant points to anyone interested in SD and MA are:

1) The third guy came in from the back (not directly threatened himself - which means it could be argued to be not technically self-defence) yet still got judged 'defence'.

2) He used a potentially lethal hold (esp if he wasn't an MA) without trying anything else. Of course that was the right thing to do against someone with a knife, but for the courts to recognise that may be a step in the right direction.

3) This is not an 'instant' tech, like shooting him in the head would have been; it takes a few seconds to get on, which again has implications for the legal aspects.

You sure about that?

Wow. Someone else got the point I was trying to make. I feel all warm and fuzzy now.


AdrianK: Take a poll of 'average" MAists of what always happens if they take thier marial arts into a street situation, the three I named will be the top three. Maybe not the top three for everyone, but the top three statisticaly.