Hop Ga kicks/ attn: diego

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lidTcbnyc0

i think this is the last of the 6'th set kick combo's which is all I'm gonna post on that...brutal each slide is like 200 pic's and i gotta edit them...up bright, clear shadows, load..repeat

F-U-CK WINDOWS LIVE PHOTO why can't you just select all brighten and fade. click

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXiFxH5eE0s

Okay so let's start at the basics, here's slide show of front kick and round kick. Now every thing demo'd by Peter in these clips is based on the white crane kaido hop ga link, my teacher asked him to just film Ng Ming tech's...no kajukenbo.

[diego]

Slice kick: a scraping kick using the outside edge of the foot to cut across the shin. (Remember the old trick of sewing sharpened copper coins into the soles of shoes? Me neither. I'm not that old. But supposedly it was done.) With a good pair of "Beatle boots" like Bruce Lee used to wear, or my teacher's hard-soled dress boots, this kick could really do some damage. You can't train this one on a hanging bag; use a carpet covered post.


jd

um kaido used to put metal lining on his boots before clubbing..I wonder where he learned that?

[diego]

[QUOTE

I always assumed he was one of those who paid for lessons in the first group you mentioned, since I assume that one would have to be Chinese to belong to the second group.



I thought so too. When I bought the magazine I was interested in collecting anything written about grandmaster Ng and his style. But the descriptions and photos look more like exaggerated crane than any Hop Ga I learned. Why the low stances and wasted opportunities between the moves? I also wonder whether Master Chin ever gave permission for the article. It seems to me that he should have been the one to write it. It looks as if someone had planned to do an article on David Chin, but it didn't work out so they got other students to pose for photos.



If Tony Galvin said it, I believe it. Galvin was a first-hand observer. That beats biased speculation, anyday.



I knew he trained with your sifu. Didn't know he learned from Long, as well. Thanks for the info.

jd

I heard kaido's dad helped Ng Ming with immigration that's how kaido got in...maybe that would have broken the "Chinese" barrier!?...and the only reason this is online is because my mom married some guy... kaido was very secretive, I only post this to find some history behind the moves I do.

[jdhowland]

Here's one for training endurance and balance:

Start with left leg in front. Do a forward daan geuk as a front slap kick (paak). Go for as much height and speed as you can get. As you drop the kicking foot into a front gung jin bouh, perform the same kick on the left side. As the left foot lands, jump into a butterfly kick while clearing with a right gaau sau or "stirring hand." (This is the same as Choy Lei Faht's poon kiuh). You sweep the space in front of you just before the right foot comes up the center to start the butterfly. As the right foot retracts, the left does the same kick but meets the left hand in a paak geuk. As the left foot touches down, jump off of it to perform clockwise syuhn fung teui at least three times in quick succession or keep going until you run out of room. When you get to the end of the hall, turn and repeat the series going back, this time starting with the right foot in front so the whirlwind kicks go counterclockwise.

Try to keep your road straight. Beginners usually get dizzy a little way into the exercise. With time, your body adapts and you can keep up the spinning kicks for longer periods.

We used to practice this with every kicking session. When completed we were warmed up enough to do more strenuous kicking drills.

In a similar manner you can do sou geuk foot sweeps across the floor by alternately sweeping with the shin of one foot and the heel of the other, going clockwise in one direction and counterclockwise in the other.

[jdhowland]

Here's a simple combination kick for fighting application.

While engaging upper gate with hands do a grazing "slice" kick to the shin of the opponent's lead leg. If he tries to withdraw the leg change the angle of your attack by circling back slightly and kicking his back knee with the heel or edge of the foot.

jd

[jdhowland]

This one is for elasticity. It can get the cardio going, too, with enough reps.

Start from a left foot forward gung jin bouh. Perform a right daan geuk or single kick while slapping the foot. Bend the kicking knee and retract the leg behind you as you fall back into a forward splits position. Push off the left heel and slide backwards onto the top of your right shoe. Catch yourself with palms to the floor on either side. The back foot is extended, the front foot points upward or you can try a strong dorsiflexion to get more stretch. Hold this posture for several seconds.
Switch positions by turning your torso clockwise to face the right foot. The right toe now faces upward and left foot rests on the dorsal surface. Again, hold for several seconds before turning anticlockwise while turning the legs to regain the original left foot forward split.

Push off with your hands (unless your name happens to be Little Richard) to stand and take a right step forward into gung jin bouh. You are now ready to lead with a left kick to repeat the exercise on the opposite side.

Duration: across the training hall and back or 6 to 12 repetitions on each side.

jd

[jdhowland]

Groundwork drill:

Start from a left foot forward position. Do a sou geuk foot sweep with the right leg, turning at least 180 degrees. From the crouch, launch yourself over the sweeping leg and perform a left shoulder roll. Land on your right side with your feet forward and at the same time tuck your right leg under while you do a low side kick with your left foot. Using power of the waist, upper back and thighs ("fish power"), launch yourself into the air to land on your left side and do the same side kick with the right foot while retracting the left. Practice a backfall by springing onto your upper back with the head raised and looking forward. The right foot, having completed the side kick retracts with the sole on the floor, knee bent and pelvis raised an inch or two. As you land on your back, kick forward and upward with your left heel. Spin your legs to torque the body and get your feet underneath you (the spinning is also a leg scissors takedown). Step your right foot forward to practice the drill on the opposite side.

There are at least six potential leg takedowns in one repetition.

Be well.

jd

[jdhowland]

OK, maybe one more. This one is from a fighting set.

From a left foot forward stance do a right side front slap kick and fall back into splits as in a previous exercise. Bending your left knee, tuck your left heel towards your crotch. Sweep your right foot anti-clockwise until it crosses over your left knee. While weight-bearing on the outside edge of your right foot, lean forward and jump up into a right syun fung teui and land facing in the direction you started from.

This is more athletic than most of our kicks and is fun for that reason, but every move is a fighting technique. Even the split posture is a takedown.

Be well.

jd

[diego]

This one is for elasticity. It can get the cardio going, too, with enough reps.

Start from a left foot forward gung jin bouh. Perform a right daan geuk or single kick while slapping the foot. Bend the kicking knee and retract the leg behind you as you fall back into a forward splits position. Push off the left heel and slide backwards onto the top of your right shoe. Catch yourself with palms to the floor on either side. The back foot is extended, the front foot points upward or you can try a strong dorsiflexion to get more stretch. Hold this posture for several seconds.
Switch positions by turning your torso clockwise to face the right foot. The right toe now faces upward and left foot rests on the dorsal surface. Again, hold for several seconds before turning anticlockwise while turning the legs to regain the original left foot forward split.

Push off with your hands (unless your name happens to be Little Richard) to stand and take a right step forward into gung jin bouh. You are now ready to lead with a left kick to repeat the exercise on the opposite side.

Duration: across the training hall and back or 6 to 12 repetitions on each side.

jd

Interesting drills, you can't shoot some clips eh? What is the offensive kicking theory...does Hop ga/White Crane attack first like Muay Thai or is kicking more secondary, and what is the process of physical fitness, how does a beginner go from shuffling side kick to tornado kick...like what is the traditional order of progression?. I'm working on my tornado kicks right now, need to get my splits down pat could use some tips to make my low sweep kicks more crisp...round and hooking heel.

Here's an interesting FMA footwork clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELWEjSFWGRA

[diego]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_WWZ...e=channel_page

is there any crazy core exercises in the system from the war days when families would perfrom on the street for salad?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geix2...e=channel_page

ok I have a total respect for wu shu, i see what they did, too bad a lot of it looks ghey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWmb3...e=channel_page

[jdhowland]

=diego;946670]Interesting drills, you can't shoot some clips eh?

Nope, sorry. I do have some old videotape but not with any of our basic training.

What is the offensive kicking theory...does Hop ga/White Crane attack first like Muay Thai or is kicking more secondary..

.

Kick whenever you need to. In general, it's considered risky to lead with a foot. Hop Ga is as much grappling as striking and we know what to do with a leg if we catch one. The assumption is that your opponent is as skilled as you are. There is a saying that "the moon throws a shadow over the foot." The "moon" is your fist.

and what is the process of physical fitness, how does a beginner go from shuffling side kick to tornado kick...like what is the traditional order of progression?.

I tried to list the kicks in pretty much the order in which i learned them, but they are all basic. Some of the drills are just harder than others. The first four i listed would be learned in the first couple of months of training. All of them could be learned within a year. Some of our combinations were derived directly from sets and others were just basic drills emphasized by our teachers. You can make up your own as long as it has some training application. You also have to keep the training "alive" by varying the height, direction and timing of kicks. Don't let it become a dead form because exercises can't teach you to fight. Note that our whirlwind kick exercise has no fighting application in the exact form we use, but it increases stamina and balance which are good attributes for a fighter.

A standard progression for kicking skills would be:

1) Learn each kick as a standing drill. Do a number of repetitions on the right side, then repeat on the left. There is a stylized method for switching from one side to the other but i won't get into it here. Let's just say that different schools have different methods to hoi jong or "open the post" and they sometimes indicate a specific lineage or teacher's preference. For standing drills you can leave your fists outstretched to the sides, rather than using an "en garde" position because we need to train for a lot of shoulder stamina in our style.

2) Once your form is more or less correct, repeat the standing drills with a set number of repetitions on each side, 30 at minimum. Go as fast as you can while still keeping good form. Then we do "one-minute drills" in which you use a wall clock with a sweep hand (or a partner with a watch,) to time your kicks. Initially try for 80 good kicks per minute on each side. This is hellish training for people with long legs.

3) Progress to stepping drills, alternating sides for each basic kick while moving. As you move forward with each kick, control your leg before stepping. Don't just let it drop to the ground like a sack of cement after finishing a kick. Imagine that you are retracting your foot from a kick and then find you have to do another kick before you touch the ground. You should be able to place your foot down onto an egg without breaking it. Then, when you are ready to step for the next kick, step deliberately, even stomp, if you like. But make sure you are stepping because you have the intent to move forward, not just because you are tired of holding your leg up.

4) Kicking bag drills. Protect your knees! Always be aware of your knee position for kicking or standing. Start with repeated single techniques, then progress to combination drills. Finally throw in some hands. This is good for learning range and balance. A three-minute "all out" power drill on the heavy bag is a good challenge.

5) Sparring. Gotta make sure you train to kick something that moves like a human being. Like,...oh, i dunno. Maybe another human?

I'm working on my tornado kicks right now, need to get my splits down pat could use some tips to make my low sweep kicks more crisp...round and hooking heel.

Waist power is the most important thing for sweeps. But you know that. I hated sweeping drills because they were so hard for me. There are at least three styles of doing broom techniques. One is to keep both knees well bent and your mass centered. This is very fast and a good way to strike the back of your opponent's knee or calf. There is the low form which stretches the sweeping leg out as far as possible while holding onto the floor to increase rotational force, (this version provides the most exercise and makes the largest sweeps, but it's hard to get the same speed). Then there is our version which is a little narrower than the others. You have the opportunity to change it into a shin kick, a leg lock, or just a step forward in case you miss. The back sweeps we do pretty much the same as other schools but, again, the possibility exists of making them narrower, more nearly a back kick with the foot remaining on the floor. Do you know the posture common to all "lama" styles called bai faht or "bow to the buddha"?

Be well. jd

[diego]

Nope, sorry. I do have some old videotape but not with any of our basic training.

.

Kick whenever you need to. In general, it's considered risky to lead with a foot. Hop Ga is as much grappling as striking and we know what to do with a leg if we catch one. The assumption is that your opponent is as skilled as you are. There is a saying that "the moon throws a shadow over the foot." The "moon" is your fist.



I tried to list the kicks in pretty much the order in which i learned them, but they are all basic. Some of the drills are just harder than others. The first four i listed would be learned in the first couple of months of training. All of them could be learned within a year. Some of our combinations were derived directly from sets and others were just basic drills emphasized by our teachers. You can make up your own as long as it has some training application. You also have to keep the training "alive" by varying the height, direction and timing of kicks. Don't let it become a dead form because exercises can't teach you to fight. Note that our whirlwind kick exercise has no fighting application in the exact form we use, but it increases stamina and balance which are good attributes for a fighter.

A standard progression for kicking skills would be:

1) Learn each kick as a standing drill. Do a number of repetitions on the right side, then repeat on the left. There is a stylized method for switching from one side to the other but i won't get into it here. Let's just say that different schools have different methods to hoi jong or "open the post" and they sometimes indicate a specific lineage or teacher's preference. For standing drills you can leave your fists outstretched to the sides, rather than using an "en garde" position because we need to train for a lot of shoulder stamina in our style.

2) Once your form is more or less correct, repeat the standing drills with a set number of repetitions on each side, 30 at minimum. Go as fast as you can while still keeping good form. Then we do "one-minute drills" in which you use a wall clock with a sweep hand (or a partner with a watch,) to time your kicks. Initially try for 80 good kicks per minute on each side. This is hellish training for people with long legs.

3) Progress to stepping drills, alternating sides for each basic kick while moving. As you move forward with each kick, control your leg before stepping. Don't just let it drop to the ground like a sack of cement after finishing a kick. Imagine that you are retracting your foot from a kick and then find you have to do another kick before you touch the ground. You should be able to place your foot down onto an egg without breaking it. Then, when you are ready to step for the next kick, step deliberately, even stomp, if you like. But make sure you are stepping because you have the intent to move forward, not just because you are tired of holding your leg up.

4) Kicking bag drills. Protect your knees! Always be aware of your knee position for kicking or standing. Start with repeated single techniques, then progress to combination drills. Finally throw in some hands. This is good for learning range and balance. A three-minute "all out" power drill on the heavy bag is a good challenge.

5) Sparring. Gotta make sure you train to kick something that moves like a human being. Like,...oh, i dunno. Maybe another human?



Waist power is the most important thing for sweeps. But you know that. I hated sweeping drills because they were so hard for me. There are at least three styles of doing broom techniques. One is to keep both knees well bent and your mass centered. This is very fast and a good way to strike the back of your opponent's knee or calf. There is the low form which stretches the sweeping leg out as far as possible while holding onto the floor to increase rotational force, (this version provides the most exercise and makes the largest sweeps, but it's hard to get the same speed). Then there is our version which is a little narrower than the others. You have the opportunity to change it into a shin kick, a leg lock, or just a step forward in case you miss. The back sweeps we do pretty much the same as other schools but, again, the possibility exists of making them narrower, more nearly a back kick with the foot remaining on the floor. Do you know the posture common to all "lama" styles called bai faht or "bow to the buddha"?

Be well. jd

Buddy just sent me last sat's u...f...cfightone hundred...trying to beat google sensors for this link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VE2W4V1Q
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RZY01NP7
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZMF7FWW8
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NBGYOSRU
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XVQRXQU0
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7AN990B2
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W859YGJ7

if any one sees this you're welcome...I'm excited!.

Thank you for the thorough reply JD I notice Beijing Wu Shu trains the shoulder stamina thing with the arms outstretched...can you tell me more about the history of this training concept, what styles besides lama are famous for it, what are the levels of training?...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-onHM...eature=channel

she used to tie her arms to torso to train the no hand cartwheel...does lama methods do like handcuff training like that one hung ga related style...i can't recall the name but they do a handcuff form. kinky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhGcnG_vfSs

Two part clip Bruce does the pull back side kick thing while shuffling forward for multiple hits...thanks for the egg shell tip the Golden rooster on one leg posture is the main fundamental I'm working on training it while stable and entering from a nuetral posture to reclining back into it during mulitple hand and foot combo's,

Great thread JD, have you published any Lama system articles before? you should if you can get the time!.

Cheers,

James

[jdhowland]

...I notice Beijing Wu Shu trains the shoulder stamina thing with the arms outstretched...can you tell me more about the history of this training concept, what styles besides lama are famous for it, what are the levels of training?.

I don't know much about how other systems use this but it is one of the basic principles established by our legendary founder, Ho Da To: "keep the hands away from the body." Even a western boxer's arms can get tired after a few rounds, so it makes sense to train keeping your arms up. Also, because our style relies heavily on wrestling skills, it helps to prevent getting both arms trapped in "big door" crossing techniques.

About 25 years ago, i took a class in Beijing opera performance. The basic training was mostly wushu techniques and included walking and kicking drills with the hands outstretched. Looked just like White Crane's pushing palms posture. It just occurred to me while writing this that a benefit to this arm position is that it gives a kind of inertia to the upper body so that we can practice turning the waist independently of the upper body. I don't know what other styles practice basics like this but you can see the tendency in the sets of a lot of northern and western styles such as Chaquan.

For shoulder training, all the muhk yih pai exercises are good. I like to do our lohon set with a 5-lb. pillow weight on each wrist and a 2- to 3-lb. dumbbell in each hand. For adding jaau strength i hold the dumbbells by the "bell" ends between my fingertips. I think i wrote about this somewhere previously, but in my Baahk Hok class in San Francisco, Master Fong had us stand in "duhk luhp mah" with arms outstretched while squeezing those spring-type grip exercisers in each hand. To make sure we didn't cheat ourselves by not squeezing consistently, he had us hold small stacks of quarters between each of the handgrips. When we got tired, the concert of musical coins began. Nobody wanted to be the first to lose his quarters.

... have you published any Lama system articles before? you should if you can get the time!.

Thanks. I've thought of it, but it would be hard to come up with an angle that lkfdmc hasn't already covered! And my teachers are still around so i should really get permission for something like that. Maybe.

Be well.

jd

[diego]

TTT



Sorry for the delay on this thread, I've been sitting on my but at the beach... I'm trying to figure out proper numbers training in CMA with with basic fitness knowledge.

They say you should do the meteor fists ten thousand times...what does this mean, like what happens to the students anatomy when you get to number 8,796?

this is just a quick post, i have a thesis worth of ideas I'm trying to formulate.