His-Story and Attachment

[Hendrik]

If people can maintain an open, neutral, "higher" level of mind to listen, without bringing in emotional baggage, ego, "old" patterns, etc. a lot could be more constructive and actually help.

RC,

To be real honest, the above cant be done.
This is because NONE of us can let go our identity.

With an Identity, disregards how one THINK one is already trap in one's mind set which based on EGO.

Until the Identity can be let go, people are just act OBJECTIVE in the surface, bottom there, Still EGO has its own agenda.

[Hendrik]

Speaking on attach to the His-story.

I could be the number one guy who attach to the history in some one's view. hahaha
Do I care? nope.




Let me share with you some history.


The CLF trained the Taiping's army.

So, in CLF there is a set name Peng (settle ) kuen and there is another set named Cheong (long) kuen. Peng in Mandarin is Ping.


So these two sets implied Tai Ping (Ping for peng kuen) kingdom long (Cheong for Cheong Kuen) peaceful for 10000 years.




In WCK, there is a similar implication act in the Yik Kam WCK lineage's SLT and 6.5 Pole set.

at the end of the SLT set, there is a salutation said " Wing Elbow Sword finger present to Hero"

the last half point of the 6.5 pole set said " Half point of Central spear settle the Taiping."


So, with SLT set mention Hero Or Ying Hung or the implication of Dei De Hui and the 6.5 pole mention Taiping or the implication of Taiping Kingdom.

Thus, the SLT and 6.5 Pole of Yik kam are implied the invovement with the Co operation of the Tien Die Hui + Taiping Kingdom's anti Qi uprising of the red boat opera lead by Lee man-mau 1850's.




Another data point for WCK, operation ID, in 1850s.


Big deal? nope if one has it and know it.
attachement? dont have to.

[Wayfaring]

RC,

To be real honest, the above cant be done.
This is because NONE of us can let go our identity.

With an Identity, disregards how one THINK one is already trap in one's mind set which based on EGO.

Until the Identity can be let go, people are just act OBJECTIVE in the surface, bottom there, Still EGO has its own agenda.

Yeah, well, as true as this may be perhaps the idea for all of us is that we can all chillaxe a little bit and not take ourselves so seriously.

That's probably a good idea.

[Hendrik]

Yeah, well, as true as this may be perhaps the idea for all of us is that we can all chillaxe a little bit and not take ourselves so seriously.

That's probably a good idea.

Unless one is an enlighten being who has attain non attachement

as soon as you will wake up when some one called your name when you are a sleep. You are taking an identity even when you are a sleep, or beyond your thinking mind. So, tough luck for Human being to speak about non attachement and non self-rigtheousness.

[chusauli]

Don't worry about being a bodhisattva.

Just worry about being open minded and not threatened when you hear derogatory nonsense:

Continuing...

1982 New York, meeting with a mainland China WCK master (not my Yuen Kay Shan sifu, Kwan Jong Yuen):

"Yip Man had to learn from YKS. YKS taught him the pole and Chi Sao and other sets. Yip Man didn't learn from Chan Wah Shun because Chan died a few months after Yip became a disciple. Yip couldn't fight, he used his mind to intimidate his opponents. One time, he had a pistol in his trousers when he was a constable, and then beat up the prisoner. The psychological effect of having a gun in his pants scared the hell out of his opponents. He was very clever!"

I merely shook my head as I heard his tales. He continued:

"If you learn from me, I can teach you both the Yip Man and YKS forms...I know them both. I can teach you the knives. You're Chinese, I won't teach Gwai Lo like I teach you. All I want is $600 per set..."

I queried, "What is the difference between the 2 sets of knives?"

"Yip Man is Baat Jaam Dao - YKS is Yee Ji Cern Dao. They're not the same."

I was quiet, just mulling things over. Wanting to say more, the master said, "I have a student who can punch 10 times in a second!"

"10 times in a second? How hard can he punch?" I asked.

His answer, "Well, he can't punch that hard..."

With that, the master and I departed. I heard his sales pitch and the money he wanted, and I wasn't impressed... more disgusted was like it. In the future, I would meet dozens more like him...

----------------------------------------------

Should I have gotten upset? Were his words a threat to me? Should I have dropped to my knees immediately to learn how to punch 10 weak punches a second?

My Si Hing encouraged me, "You should have learned from him - why not? Everything you learn is yours...its not what you learn, its what you can do with it!"

My Si Hing had a good point...

[TenTigers]

You'll like this one: A guy tried to tell me that WCK was invented for women to defend themselves against men- the elbows in position was to protect the breasts, and the yjkym was to protect the groin, and because women wore dresses and tight fitting clothes. (you don't want to see what that section in SNT with the rear palm pushes meant...)So it was designed as an anti-date rape style.
I just shrugged my shoulders and said, "Mmmm'k...so , Loong Ying, Bak Mei, SPM, etc were also for prom night?"

[TenTigers]

Do you know of a man named Yee (pronounced Yue as in fish) from Guangzhao, who does Sum Nung/YKS style? He also teaches members of the police dept. there. Nice guy, doesn't speak much English, spends his summers in Staten Island.

[lkfmdc]

I found this such an interesting thread I sort of dragged it onto the main forum, if you want to chat over there

[chusauli]

Thank you David.

Rik, Yes, I heard the date rape story and the crash course story before! LOL! Don't know the Yee guy you are talking about. A few YKS people moved to NYC after I moved to Los Angeles. There is Allan Fong in Staten Island...a former WT guy.

BTW, all the Hakka/Dong Kong/Dong Jiang systems look like WCK - Bak Mei, Lung Ying, SPM. Lung Ying is allegedly created by Ng Mui. How could Ng Mui create 3 complete systems? I always wondered. Later, I felt that Ng Mui is just a myth. So why would systems be named after a mythical person?

So, the "history" of an art are a bunch of "His-stories" going about. Of course, a lot of people fall for this hook, line and sinker and really treat the story as if true. They'd do anything to protect that image. Others have a blend of history and fictional lore, similar to the recent Yip Man movie, for instance. Yip Man certainly didn't beat up ten Japanese soldiers in a match or have a death duel with a Japanese colonel...

Take Hung Ga Kuen for example. The legend of Wong Fei Hung has gotten so far off track from the real Wong Fei Hung, (and now, WCK's Leung Jan's story is not that far off!) and many Hung Ga people think they are the living embodiment of Wong Fei Hung. It is a good example, Wong was allegedly a healer and martial artist, and showed good Mo Duk - if only martial artists could really emulate him...

Legends and stories give us an archetype...

[Ultimatewingchun]

It's what you can DO...

not the history or the his-story behind it.

Can you fight with it, for example?

Everything else is ego-pandering. One way or the other. Either by those trying to set up (make claims) about the historical lineage of "their" wing chun - or by those with some sort of vested (ego) interest in trying to tear down other peoples' lineage stories (histories/his-stories).

Two sides of one coin. I say, throw the coin into a fountain and move on.

Can you fight with your wing chun? That's what matters. Can you pass it on as an instructor? That's what matters. Can you act like a good ambassador for wing chun (ie.- be respectful to others)? That's what matters.

Can you stop "making believe" that you're really doing these things, when instead all you're really doing is looking for some "edge" on the other guy?

That's what matters, Robert.

[chusauli]

Victor,

In today's day and age, practicality and application are stressed. We live in a very pragmatic world.

Thanks for your perspective. I believe many have that perspective these days.

That's why discussion of internal, forms, art, qi, mechanics, techniques and weapons, etc. get downplayed a lot. Even Chinese will use Gong Sao to settle disputes.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"We live in a very pragmatic world...I believe many have that perspective these days...That's why discussion of internal, forms, art, qi, mechanics, techniques and weapons, etc. get downplayed a lot." (Robert Chu)


***TRUE. But there are also other reasons why some people want to downplay real discussions of things like internal training, forms, chi, mechanics, technique, etc.

They have only just touched the surface of these things, so they would rather turn the channel (and the subject) elsewhere.

And worse yet, some of these very same people then take the position that such things either don't exist, or are totally irrelevant.

And then there are others who know better, but for political (ego) reasons - prefer to dance all around the subject (ie.- not only defending the true existence and relevance of these subjects - but also, pointing out the folly of those who attack these subjects).

[Hardwork108]

BTW, all the Hakka/Dong Kong/Dong Jiang systems look like WCK - Bak Mei, Lung Ying, SPM. Lung Ying is allegedly created by Ng Mui.

From the little I know I have gathered that there are fundemental differences between Wing Chun and for example SPM and by extension Bak Mei as the latter styles emphasis a lot of Nei Gung (the specifics of which they do not teach just anyone or even publicise) whereas to my knowledge this type of training is not a generally regarded as a Wing Chun staple.

How could Ng Mui create 3 complete systems? I always wondered. Later, I felt that Ng Mui is just a myth. So why would systems be named after a mythical person?

I have heard the hypothesis that there were two Ng Muis who lived in different time periods. However, her/their existance can still be a myth.

So, the "history" of an art are a bunch of "His-stories" going about. Of course, a lot of people fall for this hook, line and sinker and really treat the story as if true. They'd do anything to protect that image. Others have a blend of history and fictional lore, similar to the recent Yip Man movie, for instance.

I agree very much.

Yip Man certainly didn't beat up ten Japanese soldiers in a match or have a death duel with a Japanese colonel...

Is it known wether he ever fought a Japanese Karate-ka?

Take Hung Ga Kuen for example. The legend of Wong Fei Hung has gotten so far off track from the real Wong Fei Hung, (and now, WCK's Leung Jan's story is not that far off!) and many Hung Ga people think they are the living embodiment of Wong Fei Hung. It is a good example, Wong was allegedly a healer and martial artist, and showed good Mo Duk - if only martial artists could really emulate him...

There are those here (at least half a dozen) in the forum who also refer to Mo Duk as fantasy directly, as well as indirectly through their slanderous and dishonest behavior.

Legends and stories give us an archetype...

I suppose they have their benefits at end of the day but as you implied people should recognize them or at least the possibility of them as being what they are.

[Hendrik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93ANw...eature=related

[sihingmike]

As we know you have 2 types of WCK. Traditional and Modrate. The Moderate is what he was talking about. It is the quick short version of our art. The true form was divided in to 2 by Grand Master Yip Man. The reason behind this was their where students that needed to learn quickly to defend them self in Fohsan China at the time when the Japenese where invading and GM Yip Man taught them the moderate version. I my Grand Master was one of GM Yip Man's first students. We practice traditional Wing Chun.