REAL Kung Fu video?

[David Jamieson]

well the one guy is tkd, but the other guy is cma, fighting a tdk guy.

but hey, its afghan, idk how it all works over there.

i did see an interview with the guy in red, he claims shaolin.

yep, could be shaolin.

shaolin has a lot of kids.

definitely tkd ruleset or the guy in the red would have pounched him in teh face a few times, maybe went for a lock or two, but seemed to stick with the kicks mostly, in which case, it was tkd ruleset, ergo, tkd.

[Lucas]

yep, could be shaolin.

shaolin has a lot of kids.

definitely tkd ruleset or the guy in the red would have pounched him in teh face a few times, maybe went for a lock or two, but seemed to stick with the kicks mostly, in which case, it was tkd ruleset, ergo, tkd.

gotcha, and fully.

i got a good giggle when the tkd guy in white threw a few punches at the other guys mid section. they didnt seem to do anything at all.

[Lucas]

oh hey, you're going to love this one

everyone remembers this vid!

shaolin vs tkd

[David Jamieson]

gotcha, and fully.

i got a good giggle when the tkd guy in white threw a few punches at the other guys mid section. they didnt seem to do anything at all.

that's because he's weak like a little kitten.



also tkd punches are pretty much non extant. they don't use em in the sport really except for points and they aren't really seriously trained at all. Having spent 4 years with tkd in my life, meh, what can ya do? Good kicks, the rest is not there.

[punchdrunk]

definately one of the funniest topics on this forum EVER.

[Hardwork108]

Kungfu is not posing. It is entering, using optimum tactics and finishing.[

I am fully aware of that but this was kwoon sparring and not a street fight or a UFC contest. As a result, there were many rules.

making long stances, jumping about and posing are highly ineffective

The ineffectiveness of posing I would agree with but the other aspects you generalised about all depend on the particular style/school's training methodology and mindset.

I personally believe that in a real fight those same people's would have been less exaggerated.

and are NOT kungfu by any stretch.

Generalization in the light of the fact that we are talking about light sparring and not real fighting.

this is a fundamental problem with the idea of what is kungfu fighting or using chinese martial arts to fight.

IMHO, the fundamental problem with people is that they think that TCMA fighting , no matter the style, should always look like kickboxing.

If I enter, and punch straight to the jaw and bypass any crane posture etal, then my kungfu is good because it did what it was supposed to do inasmuch as I attained victory through action.

Is your kung fu good if you are a boxer?

IN essence, that video showed a bit of training methdology (the stance work, meditation) but the beach scenes were utter nonsense and completely unrelated to martial arts.

Perhaps you should take that up with Adam Lee and who knows maybe he will ask you to be his sifu.

If you want to use kungfu in a fight then it doesn't have to look like a technique from a textbook,

I am fully aware of that but if you follow certain basic principles such as rooting and lets say the central line principle (in the case of Wing Chun), then your fighting should look different to kickboxing (hopping around back and forth throwing jabs, etc, for example).

it has to be effective and use the most direct lines of attack and not waste a lot of energy in doing so. THAT is good kungfu.

We are discussing the SPARRING of some kung fu students, here.

I disagree that it shows kungfu in fighting, it doesn't,. it shows a bunch of garbage.

I did not say that it showed kung fu fighting it shows a type of controlled kung fu sparring. However, and again, I have seen so called kung fu sparring that looked more like kickboxing or sports karate than kung fu. These guys looked kung fu.

you need to understand combat better if you think mma is bad.

You miss my point. Modern MMA is not "bad" but it is NOT kung fu!

NOthing is bad if it is effective and if you can step up and win a fight with cranes beak plucking, then by all means step up! Otherwise there's no point in dissing another line of practice that to date has trashed many a style and made their practitioners look like ragdolls and children being tossed about by an angry uncle.

Again, MMA is MMA and Kung fu is kung fu. MMA is good for those who like that mode of training just as kung fu is good for those who have chosen it as a path.

However, since we are in a kung fu forum, I take exception to having MMA shoved down my throat, in every other post, by knuckleheads who wouldn't know genuine authentic kung fu even if it fell on their thick skulls.

Take the kungfu and make it work and get OUT of teh mindset of thought boxing.

I can make my kung fu work using kung fu principles and methodology. I am hoping to improve on that, but not by joining the local MMA gym, but by exploring the internals.

It's the only way that kungfu will advance. so long as we defend stupid methods and worthless tactics is as long as we ourselves drive kungfu into the ground and render it laughable and worthless.

It should be apparent by now what my comments were referring to in this thread. By the way, the people who are running kung fu into the ground are the MMA-ists who post here in this forum with their clueless statements regarding authentic kung fu practice, not people like me!

That really really really needs to be understood.

Exactly!

In friendly dueling with no harm, lots of stylistic stuff looks great and is fun,

Knowing that then why did you demean and denegrade the sparring shown in that video?

but in reality and in visceral combat, simple = better.

As a Wing Chunner, I have more than a little familiarity with that concept, infact it has been drilled into every aspect of my training!

[Hardwork108]

definately one of the funniest topics on this forum EVER.

You must have missed Lkfmdc's thread, "Why I hate Traditionalists" LOL. I am still laughing at that one.LOL.

[cerebus]

I don't think the Alan Lee vid was bad at all. Yes, they do get a bit flamboyant with their hands, but at least in the kwoon fights they were going at it with decent contact for not having any sparring gear on. And some of the kicks were pretty solid.

There are a couple of advantages to the continuous hand movements, though I thought they got a bit TOO flowery with them. For one, if the hands are constantly in motion it can be harder for an opponent to see one's next hand strike coming. For another, with beginners at least, staying still can lead to tightening up and freezing. Constant movement can help them to stay relaxed and loose.

Alan Lee has been well-known in NY Chinatown for decades. If his shyt was fake, he probably wouldn't still be there. But that's just my opinion...

[Hardwork108]

I don't think the Alan Lee vid was bad at all. Yes, they do get a bit flamboyant with their hands, but at least in the kwoon fights they were going at it with decent contact for not having any sparring gear on. And some of the kicks were pretty solid.

There are a couple of advantages to the continuous hand movements, though I thought they got a bit TOO flowery with them. For one, if the hands are constantly in motion it can be harder for an opponent to see one's next hand strike coming. For another, with beginners at least, staying still can lead to tightening up and freezing. Constant movement can help them to stay relaxed and loose.

Alan Lee has been well-known in NY Chinatown for decades. If his shyt was fake, he probably wouldn't still be there. But that's just my opinion...

Very good points throughout.


Sparring is just that and it seems that these guys made some of their kung fu techniques work for them while sparring which is more than can be said for some of the modern kung fu-ists, such as many, including "sifus", who post here, and are nothing but glorified kickboxers.
,

[Lucas]

also to keep that video in context...what was that 1975?

not that fighting is different in the 70s. just the conceptions and ideas people had about martial arts is very different now. i wonder what a video would look like today if the same teacher were to shoot a new one.

[golden arhat]

ughh i cant believe this is happening again.

point 1. you dont get to decide what is and isnt real or authentic or traditional etc.

point 2. people that disagree with you are not by default knuckleheads or glorified kickboxers

althoguht kickboxing is awesome and so is being glorified so the insult doesnt really apply


also in regard to what you said to DJ if you throw a straight right cross, is that NOT kung fu? just because it happens to be in every other art ever??

[lkfmdc]

Alan Lee has been well-known in NY Chinatown for decades. If his shyt was fake, he probably wouldn't still be there. But that's just my opinion...

aside from the fact that Lee's school was in midtown Manhattan, away from the Chinatown crowd, and that Lee never associated with the Chinatown people....

http://www.pakua.org/martialarts/martialarts.htm

This group is HUGE in NYC.. and it's one of a long list of complete crap schools in NY area

[cerebus]

Well, yes the "Pa Kua International" group is horrible. But why bring them up? Even if one's opinion of Alan Lee is less than stellar, there is no way his school is as bad as that...

[grasshopper 2.0]

I have to say this was very entertaining. I've never seen kung fu, unscripted like this yet have that "kung fu" flavour (at least what may be perceived as how kung fu should kinda be)

I think a good boxer is good kung fu. I think a good karateka is good kung fu. I think good kung fu is a good boxer.

When the fighters are good, the lines of martial art styles begin to blur. Sure there are certain differences and underlying characteristics, but I would say that the number of similarities start to increase - styles, particular elements of successful moves/strategies, start to resemble each other...

The body can move an infinite number of ways but I think there are certain options that make for a good punch or a good place to punch or strategy to set up the attacker and so on...and that means those that win favour these particular ways of moving so in the end, winning fighters may have a tendency to start looking similar

[Lokhopkuen]

Unfortunately what Mr Ross thinks does not matter as Mr Ross is a glorified kickboxer whose only purpose in these forums is to sell his MMA classes and the accompanying dvds. He wouldn't know real kung fu if it fell on his head, inspite of who his teacher was.

Of course, there are many knuckleheads and meat heads here who would not agree with me but then that is no surprise.

Perhaps some authentic kung fu sifus, meaning REAL ones, can give their opinions.

Actually David Ross was the long time disciple of a Traditional Gung Fu teacher from a long grand lineage. Life is long though, this week it's apples and next week it's papaya...