Banned
I never said that the elbows didn't have a proper time and place -- only that I view them as WCK's primary weapon (rather than the "straight" punch being the primary weapon).Originally Posted by duende
Nor did I say that you just rush in with chain punches (which have a very limited usefulness) or that you should "flow directly to elbow range".
My view is that WCK's method is to get in safely, and then control the opponent while striking him.
Banned
If you are asking about my whole life? Then the answer is three!
And yes, I consider myself EXTREMELY lucky.
If you want to know how many crappy ones I have seen, including some of the modern franchises, then I have lost count....LOL
Last edited by Hardwork108; 01-14-2010 at 06:27 AM.
Banned
It is not for me to list schools I have trained at on the World Wide Web and attract trouble to schools where I have trained at. The kwoons I have trained at, none of which are in the USA, do not exist to satisfy, the off the street, challengers. Their purpose is to teach authentic kung fu as a fighting art, primarily. However, what I said stands, none of them refuse challengers.
There are other kung fu schools that will accept challenges, not least to save face. If you are so keen to challenge them then you need to look for them in the part of the USA where you live. You may be able to locate some schools in your local China Town. Any challenge you decide to make should be a polite one. Wavers may be signed before any challenges are fought.
Avoid the shopping mall kung fu "studios" or the "modern" and "Improved" kung fu ones as well, as these places are not really kung fu schools and besides you don't want to bump into any of the "MMA is best"/"Modern is best" posters in this thread....LOL.
Last edited by Hardwork108; 01-14-2010 at 06:31 AM.
Registered User
To me, it is a sister art, but people seem to get upset when it gets discussed.
Banned
m1k1:
You know what's coming when you know (and train constantly) where to look on your opponent's body at all times - one of the biggest and best attributes of William Cheung's TWC system. He's a master at this, and his method of using the eyes is one of the most important things I've ever learned from anyone about fighting.
Banned
It doesn't matter if you know something is coming or not -- if you are in range, he can move faster than you can react (if you are not already controlling him or covered). Our reaction time is approx 0.2 of a second -- that's simply to start to move when we see it; if you are in range (so he doesn't need to close or step) and all he needs to do is punch, his punch will be there (hitting you) or almost there before you can start. Of course to SEE THIS FOR YOURSELF, you need to put yourself into that position -- having your opponent really going full-out.
Banned
Now you are showing unfamiliarity with the kung fu concept of "you don't move, I don't move, if you move, then I first move". Basically, you may move second but you get there first. That is what ACTUAL kung fu practice will teach you.
See, you learn something new every day.
Registered User
I know what I said, I picked my words carefully. You're so lost it's not even funny. I said control and strike with both hands and feet, you are talking about elbows and knees. How the hell are you going to kick and strike with your hands/feet when you are clinched and close enough to strike with elbows and knees? These are 2 different ranges. It's obvious you don't even put in the work sparring or training anything as you cry we all should be doing, or you would know the difference in the ranges.
FWIW, I can contol an opponent wihout being in near body-to-body clinch range. Yes, something all good WC teaches, but something I have put in the time and worked out for myself. I don't sit on the sidelines watching everyone else as you've done. You've disproved nothing. You talk about MT because it's clear you really don't know WC, something obvious from evey post you make.
Last edited by JPinAZ; 01-14-2010 at 08:20 AM.
Banned
***AND ONCE AGAIN you demonstrate that you know hardly anything about how to use wing chun. When even just approaching what you call "in range" you are supposed to ATTACK when using wing chun.
The vid is meant to show how you would respond if he tries to attack first.
Which is why the first vid shows a longer range than the second. Any closer than that first vid's starting position and I will attack. So then people complained that it's not really a hook he's throwing because a good boxer wouldn't start the punch from that distance.
So the PART 2 was made to show how it works at a little closer range. As a wing chun guy you should have recognized the dynamics of what those two vids were meant to cover - but you didn't.
IT'S SO OBVIOUS NOW WHY YOU HAVE NEVER (AND WILL NEVER) POST A VID OF YOURSELF DOING WING CHUN.
Last edited by Ultimatewingchun; 01-14-2010 at 08:00 AM.
Registered User
Victor, I trained TWC for awhile and I am aware of his theories of training the eyes. This works well when it is choreographed or you are fighting someone who doesn’t know what they are doing and telegraphs their punches.
I agree with T in that someone who knows how to throw a hook correctly and with bad intentions will be on you before you can jam the arm or shoulder. A well thrown hook is tight and fast and to be honest there isn’t anywhere on the arm that you will be able to jam. A good hook is accomplished with body torque, it is not an arm punch as in your example. Look at Joe Frazier or Mike Tyson for good examples. Also hooks, delivered from in close, may travel several different planes and angles. Hooks to the head, hooks to the liver and shovel hooks. So even if you are very fast and see the shoulder begin to move and recognize it as a hook and not a feint you still will not have a clear idea of the plane and angle of the punch.
BTW, someone who likes to throw hooks does not assume that the first will be a KO or even land so there is almost always going to be one or two more directly behind that one. If he’s good the second one will be with the same hand.
K?
Registered User
And at those schools, how many challeng matches have you seen?
Banned
I didn't even have to read any further than this:
"Victor, I trained TWC for awhile and I am aware of his theories of training the eyes. This works well when it is choreographed or you are fighting someone who doesn’t know what they are doing and telegraphs their punches."
***IF THAT'S what you think then you didn't train in TWC enough. It's the kind of thing that takes several years, at least, to get really good at (use of the eyes)...
AND REQUIRES THAT YOU KEEP ADDING VARIOUS TECHNIQUES AND VARIOUS TYPES OF ATTACKS to be used against you...so that you end with all-out sparring wherein no matter what he throws (or does) you're going to see virtually all of it coming at you in time to respond appropriately.
It really takes awhile to get good at this (and lots of self discipline)...
Registered User
Which is why he continuously points to other styles like MT or MMA for his answers. His understanding of WC is very limited.
Registered User
LOL @ guys trying to argue techs which are ineffective in ANY style and trying to support that by saying the people they are debating with have "limited" WC knowledge. It doesn't matter what you amount of knowledge of WC is... bad technique is bad technique.
Registered User
Victor, when sparring or fighting against someone who has some skills, you will get hit. No way around it. You can't block, intercept, jam, cover or parry everything.
Also, you are going to hit them. And you know what, most of times they are going to shake it off and keep swinging. Unless you really outclass your opponent you are going to get tagged and you are going to tag him and the fight will keep going on.
People can take a lot of damage and keep on fighting. H3ll, cops shoot people and they keep fighting. Just because you foom, foom, foom doesn't mean the fights over.
I was neutral in this argument up until your last post. He's right, your training to fail.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote