Apologies to Terence Niehoff...

[t_niehoff]

And I don't care what the views are of someone who, for all I know - since he makes sure no one ever gets to see him in action - could have very little skill of his own.

You still don't get it, and that's because you don't want to. It doesn't matter what I can do since I am not your teacher. I am not telling you or anyone how they should do WCK. Quite the opposite, I'm telling them that no one including me and including theirr grandmaster can tell them. I am telling them what they need to do to find out for themselves and what they need to do to develop skill in a fighting art -- which is to say, they need to do what all the proven, competent fighters have done. There's no secret to that. It's only a secret to people who hide their heads in the sand.

It doesn't matter how good a grappler I am. Whether I am great or competent or a scrub doesn't change the fact that if someone wants to be a good grappler, they need to do what all good, proven grapplers have done (which is why they developed skill). It doesn't change the fact that skill in grappling comes only from quality sparring -- LOTS (hundreds of hours) of regular sparring against competent fightters. It's the quality of the people you train/spar with that matters. ONLY the people who do that work with good fighters will get good. That isn't my mere opinion, it is fact born out by all the evidence. All good grapplers will have done that work. Rolliing against your untrained students won't make you a competent grappler.

And it's the same for stand up and for clinch. It's the same for WCK.

You may not want to listen to me, but this is what any good, proven fight trainer will tell you. But it is a message you don't want to hear. And we all know why.

[t_niehoff]

You obviously do care otherwise you would be posting in the MMA forums instead of this fantasy fu one

WCK is not fantasy fu. But most of the people who practice WCK train it as fantasy fu.

I think most people really dont have a problem when you express (as you have above) an opinion about the merits of your training approach. This thread was never about the potential merits or otherwise of what you personally believe.

It was clearly a jab at your gut to get your reaction which worked brilliantly, ok it was personal and we all know that, nonetheless some here actually found it excruciatingly funny.

Some people, like Victor, do have a problem with my views -- because those views completely undermine and refute their authority and postition.

I'm sure some people did find this whole thing funny. But the whole thing was childish and spiteful. Some people like stuff like that. The people who like childish and spiteful things are childish and spiteful themselves. Just like the people who like racist jokes are racist. Or the people who like fat jokes are insensitive. You seemed to find it funny. I am not surprised.

Why dont you PM Benny and his clan to see whether they appreciated your red and black chequered thread ? Off course we all believe it was just light hearted humour, which was really only to address the merits of critical thinking, and off course done WITHOUT ANY INTENT OR ILL WILL ...............

Yes, it was irony meant to illustrate the silliness of using made-up history as a marketing device. I wasn't making fun of Benny personally.

I for one thinks Victor also deserves an honorary Sticky for this thread for its light hearted originality !

As I said, I'm not surprised that you found it funny. I'm sure you are not alone. That's the sad part.

[Wayfaring]

Terence,

Your antics on this thread of being able to ridicule others and yet not yourself being able to take ridicule are as you say "intellectually dishonest".

I don't buy all your cr@p about ridiculing ideas vs. individuals. It's all the same.

[-木叶-]

Hi Terence,

This video is for you, hope you can finish watching it, in fact it should be
for everyone to finish watching up till the ending and not stop halfway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJAu5...eature=related

This is a serious post, no joke intended

[Liddel]

You may not want to listen to me, but this is what any good, proven fight trainer will tell you. But it is a message you don't want to hear. And we all know why.

I think almost every member here with more than 10 posts must have run into your mantra at one point or another, given the fact its posted over and over again. You're the chain punch poster.

I dont disagree with alot of it though. what i do disagree with is this thread... do we have to lower the forum even more, do we have to lower VT anymore, did we have to single a guy out, one's pov(s) and arguments should stand on thier own !

I dont know whats more annoying, the same rhetoric posted by T, or the fact there are so many horrible nutjobs posting vids of them doing 'the real Wing Chun' in shocking 'fantasy' fashion.

DREW

[Ultimatewingchun]

And again, the latest posts from you-know-who do not negate what was said earlier. The points made still stand. He's in no position (anymore) to preach about anything without first providing some evidence that he himself is beyond mediocrity.

................................

And I gotta say, this latest description, calling you-know-who THE CHAIN PUNCH POSTER...

that's pretty funny!

[Hendrik]

Hi Terence,

This video is for you, hope you can finish watching it, in fact it should be
for everyone to finish watching up till the ending and not stop halfway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJAu5...eature=related

This is a serious post, no joke intended

木叶,

Seriously, the training in the youtube got flaws in it. for example, this type of WCK training structure got a problem in the lower middle section.

So, it is a 40/60 stuffs, if the mma guy got beat down while at contact. that is no problem.

but if there is a slight chance the WCner get a hug on his lower middle section, then the chances of being taken down is big and that means almost guarentee lost.


So, the issue here is can the WCner Ko the mma crispily? if not a long drag fight is not helping the WCner.

Saying the above, I dont agree with Terence because I have heard that WCK has another type of power generation at real close contact, In my opinion, that type of WC structure needs to be evoke. Otherwise, it is a WCK 40% mmA 60 % chance of winning prediction. and that is no good, one has already lost 10% before even fight and the longer the fight drag the higher the mmA % of win will be.

But, if the WCK power generation per 1850 is evoke then it is atleast a 50/50 all the way because hungger range is also the range WCK is comfort and good at....

Remember, WCK is a Female art? if the Female art is so easy to get take down then it is no longer a female art because the female might as well get rape by anyone who hug her. 1850 power must come back otherise, we know it is 40% 60%.


and today, the 1850 type of mechanics are very rare to be seen as I have heard.

Those who claim to be the Most Original WCK from the Shao LIn.....doesnt have it.

Just look at those who advertise the Most Original ...etc are those who goes and learn BJJ before others. that clearly tell the truth isnt it ? if they have those stuffs they will evoke it. no need BJJ because WCK is a close range art and it is complete.



But then, i think, it might be better that the 1850 structure is missing in action once for all, because what's good is promoting a structure to boost ego?

Just some thougths.

[-木叶-]

木叶,

Seriously, the training in the youtube got flaws in it. for example, this type of WCK training structure got a problem in the lower middle section.

So, it is a 40/60 stuffs, if the mma guy got beat down while at contact. that is no problem.

but if there is a slight chance the WCner get a hug on his lower middle section, then the chances of being taken down is big and that means almost guarentee lost.


So, the issue here is can the WCner Ko the mma crispily? if not a long drag fight is not helping the WCner.

Saying the above, I dont agree with Terence because I have heard that WCK has another type of power generation at real close contact, In my opinion, that type of WC structure needs to be evoke. Otherwise, it is a WCK 40% mmA 60 % chance of winning prediction. and that is no good, one has already lost 10% before even fight and the longer the fight drag the higher the mmA % of win will be.

But, if the WCK power generation per 1850 is evoke then it is atleast a 50/50 all the way because hungger range is also the range WCK is comfort and good at....

Remember, WCK is a Female art? if the Female art is so easy to get take down then it is no longer a female art because the female might as well get rape by anyone who hug her. 1850 power must come back otherise, we know it is 40% 60%.


and today, the 1850 type of mechanics are very rare to be seen as I have heard.

Those who claim to be the Most Original WCK from the Shao LIn.....doesnt have it.

Just look at those who advertise the Most Original ...etc are those who goes and learn BJJ before others. that clearly tell the truth isnt it ? if they have those stuffs they will evoke it. no need BJJ because WCK is a close range art and it is complete.



But then, i think, it might be better that the 1850 structure is missing in action once for all, because what's good is promoting a structure to boost ego?

Just some thougths.

Hi, the essence of the video i think is not on the training, it is not a training video.
It was not my intention to show this video because of its training...

It is about a personal improvement as a whole, fighting being a small part,
and showing respect to your peers, and to smile more

[Hendrik]

Hi, the essence of the video i think is not on the training, it is not a training video.
It was not my intention to show this video because of its training...

It is about a personal improvement as a whole, fighting being a small part,
and showing respect to your peers, and to smile more

Ok. Good.

and

my opnion above is just we need to face reality and be clear on today's WCK's limitation, cant boasting one thing but cant deliver in real situation.


No big deal.

[t_niehoff]

Hi, the essence of the video i think is not on the training, it is not a training video.
It was not my intention to show this video because of its training...

It is about a personal improvement as a whole, fighting being a small part,
and showing respect to your peers, and to smile more

It's interesting that people talk about "respect" a lot in TCMAs (funny, but you don't hear that much in the functional martial arts where performance is everything) -- but respect isn't a given or presumed, it is earned. And in any sport or atheltic activity, "respect" in terms of the activity is earned through performance. When people talk to me about "respecting" various WCK people, I ask myself 'WHY should I respect them?' What have they done to EARN respect?

Should I respect people who are promoting nonsense?

I think focusing on "respect" and mo duk and the like is simply a cover -- it is a way to get people NOT to ask hard questions, not to closely examine claims, not to demand proof, etc. That sort of "respect" -- the kind that isn't earned through performance -- doesn't make us better people. On the contrary, it makes us unthinking sheep. It makes us blind followers.

[-木叶-]

Hi terence, yes you are correctly, however do you realise that mo duk is not talking about
Blind respect and following blindly, and the meaning of respecting our peers is not how
You put it. I respect your frank, straightforward style nontheless.

[sanjuro_ronin]

regardless of what you may think about Terrence or even his skill level ( to an extent), if what he says is truth, then it is.
When something said is common sense and truthful, who says it is irrelevant.

[dirtyrat]

Even enemies can show respect for each other.

That is something I myself had a hard time learning (and still struggle with) honestly.

The problem with "respect" (like love, truth and many other things in life) is that you ask 5 different people their definition, and you'll get 5 different answers.

I am coming to the realization that decent folk should show respect to their fellow man. Can people earn and lose respect? I think decent folk can still respect someone who's behavior is less that acceptable because his/her behavior has nothing to do with who you are. When a child misbehaves an understanding parent doesn't hold it against the child because the child doesn't know any better. Of course that's not to say the parent won't take corrective measures .

People don't need martial arts training to learn virtues. But it is a challenging path. Fighters and people in general can go through their entire lives and not overcome their insecurities. Many are driven by their insecurities. This forum like many others, is proof of that.

I thought it would be fun to share thoughts and ideas with other martial artists but... I think I had enough of forums.

[anerlich]

People don't need martial arts training to learn virtues.

BY the same token, martial arts training does not necessarily make one virtuous. You have to do other work. There is ample evidence of that on the forum.

[Lugoman]

I thought it would be fun to share thoughts and ideas with other martial artists but... I think I had enough of forums.

**** shame, because you would be a great asset to any forum and I too gave up on this forum long ago as a viable place for discussion. You can't even ask a simple question without some Sifu launching into some acrimonious, snarky retort as if you had broken the law of some precious kuen kuit.

It is sad because there are some really knowledgeable, helpful people here but the chest thumping and the guru on the mountain top BS overshadows any good that may be gleaned from here.