Security Tips from David Hackworth

[jameswebsteruk]

Starship Troopers was written by acclaimed science fiction writer Robert Heinlein, and there is discussion over whether he actually believed the almost-fascist ideas put foward in the book. Written in the 60s, Heinlein was career military, who was invalided out with TB, and it seems likely that he did, these were his personal views in novel form.

The idea of compulsory military service for citizenship is not new, the Roman empire at its height couldnt have existed without it, as it was a relatively small country which had taken over huge swathes of territory, and was spread very thinly. However, they insisted on extended periods of service, in some areas, a minimum of 15 to 25 years!

The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

[BaekHoKwan]

A strong, and effective military, must be supported by a nation of civilians. Civilians pay taxes that fund the military, staff industry and build military equipment, provide logistical and technichal support, research and development, and a host of other services, to the armed services. A strong Military is vital, but it is nothing without a strong nation of civilian, citizens to support it.

The position that citizens should only be allowed from a pool of servicemen and women, and public servants (which I've done my time as a Peace Officer), smacks of facism. I serve my country, by protecting it from itself. I'm no better, nor more deserving of citizenry, than a teacher, accoutant, garbage collector, or the guy taking my order at McDonald's. They all work. They all pay taxes, and they all have the same rights as I do....and thank God I live in a country where that is the truth.

Peace.....unless otherwise required.

C. Martin
"Pain is Neccessary!"

[JWTAYLOR]

None of that seemed terribly paranoid to me at all. I must admit that I'm a few steps, at least, beyond that. Much to my surprise, my wife is even beyond me.

JWT

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

[myosimka]

C. Martin-RTFO!!!


qimaster- I must say that while I admire those who chose to serve in our military, I hold them in no higher regard than I do my wife who is a pacifist and teaches in the public school system. Military service doesn't make you a citizen, it makes you a soldier.
I'd argue that Ali's decision to stand before Congress as a conscientious objector qualifies as a patriotic act.
I would also argue that at times, particularly as we watch the 4th amendment fall by the wayside, military or police service does not always constitute a patriotic pursuit.

I am glad that people choose a military career. I am glad people routinely lay down their lives to protect mine. I am also glad people routinely stand up and say that war is not necessary. And if you think that a congresswoman facing death threats for voicing her moral stance is less patriotic then joining the military, then reread the Bill of Rights and the philosphical basis for our gov't--Locke, Montasquieu, etc

[halfling]

What part of Texas do you live in? I have been around Texas quite a bit and know people from about every part of Texas and I have never heard of the required 250 volunteer hours you mentioned. I am currently in the public school systems in Texas (higher-education) and have never heard of such required hours. Just curious about what part of Texas this is. Thanks.

[rogue]

Pacifism is a luxery provided by a strong military.

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[Kung Lek]

rogue

Read some george orwell. Also, upon reflection of many of the things said in this thread, It is apparent that Nationalism and Patriotism are not being defined clearly. There are differences.

-"the picture of the future is a boot stamping a human face, forever"- Orwell

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links

[jjj]

Rogue is correct.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

[jjj]

BTW I am tired of hearing about the following:

1) Anthrax
2) Civilian casualties

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

[myosimka]

Really? Ask Mahatma Ghandi about that. He found it to neither be a luxury nor backed by a strong military. (Although I should be more precise and use the term non-aggression)

[jjj]

>>Really? Ask Mahatma Ghandi about that. <<

Nah, he can ask me about it. :D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-Watchman

[qimaster]

typo. 25 hours, I live in wichita falls. not much
time at all really. My info may be a bit dated since the school board here has changed more times than I even care to bother remembering.

could be something entirely new this year...

[This message was edited by qimaster on 10-29-01 at 12:33 PM.]

[qimaster]

"I hold them in no higher regard than I do my wife who is a pacifist and teaches in the public school system."

Thats fine. BUT pacifists can only exist when there is a society in place that is "free" and has a strong military base to stop aggressive enemies from conquering it.

I paraphrase here, but have heard that the wheels
of liberty and freedom and democracy must at times be oiled with the blood of patriots.

by the same token, I may not agree with all opinions set forth here, but I would defend with my life the rights for others to voice their dissent. (another paraphrase of course).

In a militaristic society, i.e., one that is always being attacked on all sides, a pacifist
cannot survive. back in the revolutionary period and the expansionist period, I would dare say that all citizens were soldiers, those being counted as males over the age of 16 years I believe. some females would on occaision take up male dress and join in arms with other men, as history has borne out in the revolutionary and civil wars.

[myosimka]

and I again reply-Mahatma Ghandi. Preached non-aggressive resistance and lived it. Funny thing is it worked. And India was not a free nation at the time and the Indians clearly had an inferior military.

Will passive resistance work in all cases? Can't say and we can certainly disagree on that(never said I was a pacifist) but your statement that a pacifist cannot survive is clearly not the case.

The point is your elitist notion of citizenship based upon military service is limited and does a disservice to the notion of plurality that makes the US great. Again, I state that Ali was patriotic in defending his religious beliefs and ideals.

Also, kindly remember that we now live in a time where we have the most powerful military in the world even though it comprises less than 1% of the citizenry. Compulsory military service is not necessary and, ask the Soviets, it cripples your economy. Oh that's right, you can't ask the Soviets; their economy collapsed and they no longer exist. Ask the russian people still bearing the weight of such a policy years later

[tsunami surfer]

So qimaster if a person washes out of basic training because he just cant get it together militarily does that mean he is a waste to society??? I guess if a humvee runs over your foot and retires you on a medical discharge you are above him citezen ship wise.a