Originally Posted by
Sal Canzonieri
Yes, exactly (but not just any Hong Quan, this particular one: Big Vast Fist. The other Hong Quan style came later).
It's always been said that the Village Hong or Chang Quan practiced all over Henan province degenerated from the Da Hong Quan (whatever they called it at whatever time period, remember that) that was practiced since Sui/ Tang times along the Yellow River basin areas, and centered in Kaifeng and Louyang cities
(why these two cities? These were the two cities that were the capital city of the various empires before the Southern Song dynasty. Hence, there were many soldiers at these places).
Big Vast Fist wasn't a "Chang Quan" long fist yet, because the sets were still "Jia" or frames, which means there was stops along the way, after each drill was done. Jia are strings of drills.
Once the Shaolin Taizu Chang Quan set was developed, from THEN there were Long Fist sets developed where the postures were done with movements that were like how a river is long and flowing, the postures were strung together smoothly (so that even the space between the postures became movements used for self defense) and thus real boxing or fist "forms" "Quan" or Roads (Lu) were created.
Eventually, Chang Quan sets were called Hong Quan, with the character for Flooding, was further conveyed the idea of moving like a how wave or a river floods all in its path.
So, Taizu Quan came from Big Vast Fist, because that was what the military Zhao family practiced, eventually it became called Hong Quan, Flooding Fist.
Excellent!
That fills in a lot of gaps, and explains the obvious similiarity in how traditional Chang Quan and Hong Quan sets are played.
I wonder where I can learn some good hong style in New England?
"Siezing oppurtunities causes them to multiply" Sun Tze