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Thread: Sun Family Taiji

  1. #16
    Braden Guest
    GLW - that's great, thanks! I've been looking for info on Sun Taiji for ages now, but it's not particularly common. Can you recommend any videos/VCDs, or even better, good instructors in Canada?

    Do you know any Sun style specific foundational exercises or drills? I assume they practice push hands - an emphasis on moving step?

    Thanks again.

  2. #17
    GLW Guest
    I haven't seen a really good book or video...or even VCD on Sun style.

    I have one or two (books, video, and VCD) for reference but if I had not learned it already, they would only produce a person with no understanding.

    In many, the postures are hunched over and not lively enough. The connection or understanding of the meaning of the move is not there.

    Then you have one camp who hate the Competition routine and others who don't. Having touched both, I can say that while the routines are in a different order, the only real difference between the two is that the competition routine has a higher level of difficulty by adding the juming kick... some say this is not traditional but since when do traditional arts not have the ability to take a jump that all have and a kick that all have and combine them into one move?

    As for Canada...possibly Helen Wu in Toronto....I know she does Chen and Yang well...and maybe Wu and she ma know Sun....but everything she does is excellent...

  3. #18
    Subitai Guest

    Competition and other stuff

    As I can say that I've felt Sun Jian Yuns skill personally. I can also comment on her feelings of the competition routine.

    As I remember, a female wushu champion demostrated her version of SUN to her. She was not impressed. She did not authorize that version.
    Upon testing the champions skills and touching hands with her she said it was not correct.

    Also, I agree with almost everything that GLW said. Except one little thing when he ended with this:
    "So you would never absorb without moving and never move without attaching and following back in to the opponent."

    "NEVER" is too constricting, pending on your skill level and the energy given to you by your opponent, you can never say "never". That is to all MA.

    Also, their is NO broken rythm to the form. NONE, that would be contrary to SUNS idealogy when creating the form. He was in his later years, i.e. fighting days long since over when he created this form. I would argue that, one of his aims was too create a form that MORE closely followed the TC principles. For example, you will not find a 50/50 heavy stance in the set. Always Yin/Yang, one foot alive and one more empty than the other and switching.


    I am not claiming mastery of this style myself, but my sifu is authorized to be the US Sun Style Reseach Institute by Si-Gung herself. So i am relating things that were translated to me/us.

    GLW, is also correct when he refferences bagua and Xing Yi. W/O understanding in these as well, you cannot hope to master SUN TC. Albeit, though SUNs Bagua and Xing Yi can be different to other styles too.

    "O"

    "Brilliant general"! "When the dirty ******* finds out, he'll return with his men--then we kill the all of them..." www.kwoon.tv

  4. #19
    Sam Wiley Guest
    Are there no videos at least of Sun Jian Yun performing her father's form? I have Sun's book on Xingyi, and she seemed very open and willing to share when commenting on him and his style of Xingyi. Surely, there must be at least a demo with her on it.

    *********
    "I put forth my power and he was broken.
    I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."

    -Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

  5. #20
    GLW Guest
    There is a VCD of Sun Jianyun doing the routine. Due to age, here postures are not what her father's were. The widow's hump that many women get as they age is quite apparent in her. The problem is that the stoop that is a physical problem for her is evident in her senior student who demonstrates in the video with her. (seen this before where the student copies the older teacher too closely and does not know where age or experience has changed the technique)

    As for anyone who merely learned the routine, OF COURSE they would not have it....how surprising. You train only form and do tons of them and you don't get the real essence of the style and you can't use it. The video on one routine from China has one of the team members doing it...there are noticeable problems with it but you now see many people in the US copying that way of doing things because "It was on the video and that MUST be the way to do it"

    By NEVER I may have overstated...in Taijiquan, the extremes such as NEVER and ALWAYS are rare. Also, all rules get broken from time to time. I was speaking in general principles.

    The stepping indicates that the issuing and absorption of power are intimately connected with the legs and steps and work through the waist...no big surprise there since that sort of applies to most Taijiquan...but it is put up front in the form.

    As for the rythm...it is NOT the same as Yang style (Yang Chengfu routine) which I would consdier unbroken and steady. There are really no breaks in any Taijiquan routine I have seen...but there are changes in rythm. My first year of Sun practice came after many years of Yang...It did not feel right because I tried to apply the same cadence to Sun. As soon as I realized that the spirit and cadence was different, I began to understand the ideas it held.

    It appears to me that much of this cadence comes from Bagua with a littel Xing Yi thrown in and then softened by Wu/Hao style....

  6. #21
    unclaimed effort Guest
    To my understandings, isn't David Lin one of the higher authorities on the Sun style?

  7. #22
    Subitai Guest
    Very well said GLW.

    You obviously see beyond the exterior.

    "Brilliant general"! "When the dirty ******* finds out, he'll return with his men--then we kill the all of them..." www.kwoon.tv

  8. #23

    Sun Shi Taijiquan

    I have attended many seminars and surprise to see only one or two people competing in Sun style, anyone know who promotes or teaches this system.
    Gene had a wonderful article on Sun style , it would be nice to learn the Traditional Form

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Seattle, WA.
    Posts
    1,754
    Not many in the US. Mostly wushu stuff. Tim Cartmell is my teacher and I cannot recommend him highly enough. For whatever reason this wonderful system of Taiji is not very popular here in the west. I think it is the shnizel, but then again it is a biased opinion
    Cheers
    Jake
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX USA
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    121
    The Sun Lu-Tang Style Tai-Chi Chuan has always been considered in a different light than the other major TCC Styles because of its inclusion of various movement elements of Pa-Kua Chuan and Hsing-Yi Chuan, which gives it a unique stylistic interpretation among TCC styles. Unlike Master Sun, very few students who begin learning and practicing the Sun Style TCC have a previous background of training in any style of Pa-Kua Chuan and/or Hsing-Yi Chuan. Most have varying degrees of previous experience with some other TCC style only, if even that. This is why it has been woefully unappreciated by most martial artists for what it truly is, the culminating creative genius of a rare Master, who devoted more than 60 years of his life to his IMA training.

    As a result, without at least an intermediate skill level in the three styles that were combined in creating this method, the Sun Style TCC Form Set generally proves to be quite challenging for most students to perform properly, especially as originally intended and personally performed by Master Sun himself. It should be remembered that Sifu Sun created his TCC Form Set after several decades of exceptionally high level Pa-Kua Chuan and Hsing-Yi Chuan practice. It is a Master Level expression of his unique knowledge, skill, and expert perspective of the IMA's, much like a Doctorate Degree Thesis, meant to represent a Graduate Level training method, not a starting out point for beginners.

    Thus, the Sun Style Tai-Chi Chuan has never enjoyed great popularity among large numbers of enthusiastic practitioners like the other major TCC styles have. It has been my observation through the years that few people devote themselves to learning and training the Sun Style TCC exclusively, and even fewer yet demonstrate the ability to perform it well.

    Doc

  11. #26
    hello, I'm jaime, Wing Lam student and Si Hing Gene's kung fu brother in the old days.

    I practice (Ku Yu Cheong) Yang style but lately I've been practicing Sun more. I actually prefer it now. While I understand that Sun Lutang emphasized the health aspect of his style , the martial content is very much present.

    BTW I very much like Doc's comments.
    Last edited by jaime; 09-20-2007 at 10:03 PM.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    45,712

    Lucky old Sun

    I really didn't write that much about Sun Style. It's almost all online:

    Radical Taiji: The Rising Sun of Taiji (btw, if you get this issue, you can see Jaime getting tossed about by Sifu Paul Tam )

    Rising Sun of Tai Chi: The Hot new Internal Style

    A Setting Sun: Writing an Obituary for Grandmaster Sun Jianyun

    Hey Jaime, nice to see you finally post on board here!
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  13. #28

    Sun Family Taiji

    Hello ,
    Anyone know who is promoting Sun Family Taiji? This style is almost lost.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    San Francisco BAy Area
    Posts
    704
    Depends where you are located. There are plenty of Sun Style instructors and Sifus in the west coast area. Do a google on Sun Tai Chi.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Houston, Tx. USA
    Posts
    1,358
    you're kidding, DMK, right?

    Come now, there are several people in Houston who learned Sun from Madame Wang Jurong ... the traditional and the competition set.

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