Is trapping only good for offense?

[phantom]

There was once an article in black Belt magazine on when to use and avoid using trapping. It said that trapping works well for offense to help you break through an opponent's defense. However, it is poor for defense. Many people claim this is especially true against a boxing type punch. However, one wing chun guy claimed that trapping can work against a boxer's punch if you simultanteously step to the side of it, which would put you in a good position to counterattack. What are your thoughts about this? Thanks in avance.

[k gledhill]

wow thats confusing to write, had to delete it all .... Just ATTACK
never mind trapping

[Pacman]

one of the fundamental principles of wing chun is that offense and defense are performed in the same movement.

[t_niehoff]

There was once an article in black Belt magazine on when to use and avoid using trapping. It said that trapping works well for offense to help you break through an opponent's defense. However, it is poor for defense. Many people claim this is especially true against a boxing type punch. However, one wing chun guy claimed that trapping can work against a boxer's punch if you simultanteously step to the side of it, which would put you in a good position to counterattack. What are your thoughts about this? Thanks in avance.

See for yourself. That's the ONLY way to know. It doesn't matter what someone else can do, what matters is: CAN YOU DO IT? Get a partner with some decent boxing skills, tell him to go 80-100% trying to knock your block off, and see.

[k gledhill]

Because we want to attack the guy and put them on a defensive reaction, we may/will encounter arms flailing at our strikes or make contact with a strike from them...as we attack.
We need to have a trapping action/s that will either allow a strike/s or a trap to shut down the opponents ability to function and counter us by facing us and working square on.

Our own tactical movements are designed to put us outside either side of a 'facing' 2 armed/leg attack. We learn to respond to the 'which side do i move to' instinctively by doing chi-sao drills involving the most important aspect, random attacking entry and counter attacks by partners. One does 1/2 step forwards while the response angles and strikes ....the side we angle to is the leading line of force ...we do the line of force by attacking with a tanstrike, we counter strike the tanstrike with a...jumstrike...strike versus strike.

Each arm is trained to be a deflecting strike, both maintaining an attacking line relative to our centers and striking inwards , each trying to remove the others striking ability by displacing it off the lines of entry [ centerlines] just a a drill.



We try to turn the opponent so they have turned away from us, by trapping their ability
example elbow is controlled with one hand so the guy cant reface...we can further trap them by pining them against a jets bulkhead from behind...completely shutting them down.
Or by the barrage of a constant attacking cycles to force them to offer flanks by turning or ducking away or offering weak sides or no fight at all...we fight 1/2 the person.

We don't do lead leg centerline chain punch attacks down guys centers [ inside both their arms] for the simple reason that the opponent has either arm to swing into our center....and we cant 'cut' their arms functions with ours because we have to 'leave our own attacking line' to chase hands that are coming at us from our sides ...randomly...fast...not good. We become punch bag that faces the punches with an arm extended towards the incoming punch with only one arm available to strike....many train to simply punch with no duplicity of strike deflection available to them , simply because they aren't in a correct position to even utilize the elbow principles...ie they parry with one hand in a block and have to think of a striking fist as the response....if that hand is parried by the attacker your 'turned' 'blocked' and have a hand way off the attacking centerline chasing a punch that can re-chamber instantly...while standing square on to their attacking momentum...

bad

By using trapping strikes on entry, we can momentarily gain a strike which may lead to another or simply allow the attacking momentum to build to full flow..

this flow is a concept of vt attacking, how to achieve the ability lies in the system,
a flowing delivery of attacking actions with trapping ability to shut down the opponents actions. This can be acting [ attacking] or reacting [ counter attacking ].

The prime trapping target is the elbow, ergo we place so much on our own ability to recover the elbows from traps [ bil gee] , learning to fight our own trapping actions...why bil gee was meant to be kept to students and not the public.


We can be trapped too choked etc...

[-木叶-]

It depends on the situation.

Will you dodge if a huge train is bearing down on you, yes
Will you trap if a marshmallow man is punching you, yes

[RGVWingChun]

in my experience against the boxing type is that, especially a jab, they throw it out there and it pulls back...so there isn't much energy that they give to use a trap or gum sau of sorts. You almost have to wait for a very committed attack, take control of it and then if they throw a second attack, you can try to use that for a trap...but don't look for a boxer to leave their hands out there....I like the advice given above....ATTACK and use the lin siu dai da principle....simultaneous attack and defense in the sense that your defensive hand is also an attack hand....

Wing Chun, at least I think, doesn't alway have to trap to be Wing Chun....sometimes its that quick taking of the centerline that can do the trick...just don't play their game and you'll be fine.

my humble opinion,

Moses

[Pacman]

thats right. not every move has to be simultaneous offense/defense but keep that mentality and you will be a step ahead of people who have the block then punch mentality

dont be over eager in thinking you must trap or you must do this or that. try to let things come naturally from training

[grasshopper 2.0]

Ya I agree - trapping isn't a type of move imo. It's not something that u can perform actively like a front kick. "Trapping" is something that just happens given the situation. Really, I don't even agree with the concept associated with the word "trapping" - it's like calling it a "hadouken" in street fighter lol but really u can't force it to happen. It just does, if at all. Whoever used the word gave it "trapping" its own identity, as if its a technique or type of attack. It's none of those. Its just u attacking and if his arms get caught up so u can hit him. Sorry....this is horribly worded post....I just ate a huge steak.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Trapping is not limited to the hands, but can utilize the entire body. IMHO trapping is more about positioning than a specific hand position. A good trap puts you in a position where you can strike or control your opponent but they need to move or alter position in order to strike or control you. This can be done with a lot more than just hands.

[k gledhill]

every action we do ...like it or not incorporates, attacking/deflecting actions....the primary strikes we throw are trained for this in Dan chisao ...etc.... not the wrists the elbows and forearms.

trapping is preventing or disrupting a position from stopping our attacking action/s...If we train to hold our centerline with a man sao, the traps can present themselves by simply being one side of the line or the other before us...an elbow passes by after a grab/swing, we didnt look for it but the elbow is right in front of our hand so we 'trap' it or stop it from returning quick enough back to their working stance....

stepping on a foot , while trapping an elbow against a wall....

Using the leading shin to 'trap' another calf/shin against a chair/seat....etc...

I agree the word 'trap' is misleading to imply we are lookig for traps etc...

we are really trying to keep attacking, so the trap is a hand chase to some degree, unless you are wanting to 'control' rather than strike ...controlling can lead to a different training oucome in chi-sao...sticking becomes a leader for control, rather than striking training first ....one will never allow the other to be developed

while one will not require 'controlling' as much just

ATTACKING

[Pacman]

Ya I agree - trapping isn't a type of move imo. It's not something that u can perform actively like a front kick. "Trapping" is something that just happens given the situation. Really, I don't even agree with the concept associated with the word "trapping" - it's like calling it a "hadouken" in street fighter lol but really u can't force it to happen. It just does, if at all. Whoever used the word gave it "trapping" its own identity, as if its a technique or type of attack. It's none of those. Its just u attacking and if his arms get caught up so u can hit him. Sorry....this is horribly worded post....I just ate a huge steak.

there actually are techniques for trapping, or pinning, an opponents limb to his body

[Lee Chiang Po]

I find that the vast majority of individuals that you will have a confrontation with will attempt to use a boxing stance and jab and punch at you. You will run up on few individuals that are trained in some other form of martial art. Many years ago I was asked to give a short demonstration of trapping. Trapping is not always easily done, but if you can get in close and avoid being struck in doing so, trapping can be fairly easy. The individual I was to demonstrate on was about 6 feet tall. I am only a bit over 5 feet tall. He was at least 40 pounds heavier than myself. I let him toss a few punches at me, then I sort of lunged at him, making him defend against what he thought was a rush. I did this a few times, then after he threw a defensive punch to keep me back I dropped and rushed him for real. I took hold of his lead hand, the left jabbing hand, forced it across his body as I shoved him backwards and off balance. Stepping on his lead foot made him lose balance too. As he tried to defend with his right hand I grabbed and pulled it across his left arm, then sort of scissored his left arm across his right, which then trapped both arms and left him in great pain and a complete disability toward defending himself. I could have taken him down on his back and struck him in the face repeatedly with no possible way for him to defend himself. This did not look real pretty, and you may not have recognized it as WC, but it was indeed.
Fighting is a lot of things in one. I would never attempt to take a defensive positions directly. The opponent always has the advantage here. You have to draw him out of his defensive position. I like to do this with un-nerving sounds and movements that suggest that I am in full attact. If the guy things you are running in on him he will throw punches at the air. You can make him do this a few times before he gets wise to you, but that is all it takes to time him and follow his weapons back in. I like to grab an arm with both hands as I rush in on him and this makes him easier to control. A strong jerk can pull him into a strong punch or you can even use it to spin him around, giving you his back. A foot into the back of a knee will than take him down, and if the foot remains in the back of the knee as it is on the ground you have him pinned down for a flurry of blows to the back of the head.

[Firehawk4]

What if the Boxer uses his elbows to like Mauy Thaiboxeing Elbows ?

[Knifefighter]

The theoretical, pretend, non-fighting force is strong on this thread.