Timeframes: Striking vs. grappling

[monji112000]

In actually fight. How do you use grappling to stop from getting knocked out?

How does one who only practies lets say Aikido,Judo and BJJ defeat a common thug. Lets say this thug is throwing his fist at your face as fast as he can. What do you do if you have no striking experience.

well the typical BJJ answer can some type of takedown , mount ect..
The problem with talking to BJJ guys is this strategy works well in some cases. You can often cover up, and close the distance, clinch,and go for some type of takedown. By coving up and quickly closing the distance you can take most strikes.. The problem is when other people are involved or when sharp things get involved. Allot of people win street fights this way, but that doesn't mean you can't get hurt if someone kicks you when your mounted on the guy.
A judoka would do something similar,..

You could just throw the guy and not try to wrestle with the guy.

[Yoshiyahu]

well the typical BJJ answer can some type of takedown , mount ect..
The problem with talking to BJJ guys is this strategy works well in some cases. You can often cover up, and close the distance, clinch,and go for some type of takedown. By coving up and quickly closing the distance you can take most strikes.. The problem is when other people are involved or when sharp things get involved. Allot of people win street fights this way, but that doesn't mean you can't get hurt if someone kicks you when your mounted on the guy.
A judoka would do something similar,..

You could just throw the guy and not try to wrestle with the guy.

What if the bumb your fighting pulls a knife or screw driver and attempts to plunged it in you. how would the take down and mount help you.

My other question is once you are in the mount posistion how do you finish the guy. How long does it take to finish him usually?

[Knifefighter]

What if the bumb your fighting pulls a knife or screw driver and attempts to plunged it in you. how would the take down and mount help you.

My other question is once you are in the mount posistion how do you finish the guy. How long does it take to finish him usually?

- Grappling is almost always more effective against a bladed weapon than is striking.

- Mounting someone with a weapon takes away the majority of his ability to do damage. The only stronger place to be is back mounted.

- Finish with elbows from the mount and/or a choke if he turns and gives his back rather than take the elbows. Usually takes between 1 and 10 seconds if he doesn't have knowledge of how to defend from underneath the mount.

[goju]

but theres always the possibilty he can get in a dominant position and then your on the ground with soem one with aknife whos on top of you

[Kansuke]

Are you actually asking a question or trying to make an (illl-informed) statement

I was thinking the same thing

[YungChun]

Numerous reports have been made of grappling vs edged weapons with the grapplers getting sliced and diced.. These discussions of encounters seem to make light of the situation by comparison..

Are you going to control the weapon?

Are you going to shoot for the legs?

Are you going to clinch?

Offer him your guard?

A few seconds of *delay* in taking the weapon delivery system out in close quarters can easily result in death and has, even in so-called dominant positions... Blades don't need much power to kill.. By comparison a skilled "striker" could conceivably turn the guy's lights out almost instantly...

A connected style of striking could do the same and maintain control of the weapon. This assumes we know he has an edged weapon--he may not show it to you and your first clue may be that your clothes feel wet-->from your blood as your life seeps away..

Folks can train as they wish but I would never want to "roll" on the ground with someone with an edged weapon.. LEO and tactical trainers don't teach folks to go to the ground (at least not the ones I have met) against an edged weapon... Of course, those with extensive ground experience may feel differently and advocate going to the ground no matter what. Nevertheless folks without extensive ground skill are better off not doing so IMO.. I find the idea of rolling around on the ground in the subway with a knife wielding threat highly undesirable to say the least.

Then there is the very real likely-hood that the perp has a buddy who will move in as soon as you commit to the delayed and entwined grapple, which by its nature takes more time than does skilled stand-up smashing.. Every second counts, we need to hurt him instantly--every second lost has a tactical cost...

Conservation of time, movement and energy is the way to go..

[Merryprankster]

"What to do against an armed opponent," is pretty much just a distraction.

Here is what you are going to do. You are going to get hit, cut, stabbed, sliced, shot, etc.

The idea that "striking is better than grappling, no grappling is better than striking" for this is just dumb.

You're gonna get cut, unless you get lucky, no matter what happens, and probably no matter what you train in. And anybody who doesn't realize that is basically retarded.

End.

[Merryprankster]

In actually fight. How do you use grappling to stop from getting knocked out?

How does one who only practies lets say Aikido,Judo and BJJ defeat a common thug. Lets say this thug is throwing his fist at your face as fast as he can. What do you do if you have no striking experience.

I have a couple responses.

The first is to keep your god**** hands up.
The second is that the question you have asked is so simple in nature, yet so full of variables that nobody who has ever done any regular full contact sparring or fighting would ever ask it, because it doesn't actually mean anything.

[anerlich]

How does one who only practies lets say Aikido,Judo and BJJ defeat a common thug. Lets say this thug is throwing his fist at your face as fast as he can. What do you do if you have no striking experience.

1. All of us on here have striking experience (or claim to) so it's an irrelevant question.

2. Why don't you go to a frigging grappling school and FIND OUT?

[namron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuVhG...eature=related

[Merryprankster]

1. All of us on here have striking experience (or claim to) so it's an irrelevant question.

2. Why don't you go to a frigging grappling school and FIND OUT?

Too experiential. Too direct. Much better to discuss it in the abstract. As we know, paper exercises prepare you for the real thing ;-)

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Paper Beats Rock!

[monji112000]

What if the bumb your fighting pulls a knife or screw driver and attempts to plunged it in you. how would the take down and mount help you.

My other question is once you are in the mount posistion how do you finish the guy. How long does it take to finish him usually?

I have no idea about weapons training, so I couldn't help you. You are in no better position standing .. JMO . I would just give him your wallet if that was the case..
also if you are able to be on top and control his wrists I would think any weapon would be muted..

you can finish the a normal person pretty quickly from the mount. You can also stand back up, and kick him in the head. As a general rule when a person is laying on his back in a fight he is at a major disadvantage.. that includes the guard JMO..

[Knifefighter]

Folks can train as they wish but I would never want to "roll" on the ground with someone with an edged weapon.. LEO and tactical trainers don't teach folks to go to the ground (at least not the ones I have met) against an edged weapon... Of course, those with extensive ground experience may feel differently and advocate going to the ground no matter what. Nevertheless folks without extensive ground skill are better off not doing so IMO.. I find the idea of rolling around on the ground in the subway with a knife wielding threat highly undesirable to say the least. ..

There are two things you can do to quickly prove the incorrectness of the above statement.
1- Start training full force with weapons that are as close to the real thing as possible (the two that are probably the best are shock knives and and steel blades that do not have a fully sharpened edge).
2- Watch examples of real-life knife attacks. Here are a few:
http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/...l_Knife_Attack
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4010971n
http://www.comegetyousome.com/video/...fe-attack.html
http://www.bestviral.com/video/18723...s_knife_attack

You will find that 9 times out of 10, edged weapon attacks end up with grappling and/or groundfighting. The fact that you don't want the fight to go to that range won't do you a bit of good because there's pretty much nothing you can do to prevent it. Trainers who are not training people about the reality that edged weapon attacks involve grappling/groundfighting are ignoring the facts, probably because they are clueless about the dynamics themselves. Good CQC trainers teach how to grapple/groundfight against weapons.

Anyone relying on the "one strike takes em out" mentality, is seriously deluded.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I recall a clip I used to have on a DVD awhile back, the whole DVD was a compilation of knife attacks from all different sources and one of the attacks I remember the most was of a guy attacking someone in a store with a knife and he was stabbing them a few times when someone smacks him on the head with an ALUMINUM baseball bat !
Over and over on the head and body and such and they guy turns to him and tries to stab him WHILE STILL getting hit !!
The bat eventually hits the arm with the knife and it goes flying and the attacker is eventually beaten down, but it took a bunch of hits with an aluminum bat to do it !