I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
no its not ive seen the same china locks in karate as i do in cma
and most chinese practioners who say karate is a joke say that because of their countries history with japan they dont realize the okinawans are their own distinct ethnic group
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
No what’s bloody obvious is that some techniques are just more difficult if not impossible to pull off than others, and if they are that difficult why bother learning them?
Don’t you think if standing locks worked at all you would see them all the time in grappling matches as they beat the hell out of having to pull off a takedown, pass the guard and secure dominant position before even attempting a submission?
So according to you nearly all the police out there are improperly trained and even if they were properly trained by an expert such as yourself they would still need to practise these holds on a daily basis in order to have a prayer of pulling them off?
The issue of grappling in Karate is one that I have dealt with before.
Its typically been propegated more in N.America than in Asia, in Okinawa and Japan you don't go to karate to learn/train grappling,period.
Every system has some rudimentary grappling and dim mak, along the lines that Judo and BJJ have striking.
Those techniques are far inferior to what the system is specialized in, in the case of Karate, striking.
Standing grappling and Dim Mak came about from the Bunkai and the Himitsu ( Hidden hands) of the various Kata, when it became clear that many of moves just didn't work as strikes and it was clear that many had ani-grappling ( standing) applications.
The joint locking and vital point striking taught in typical karate is rudimentary and basic at best, though many instructors have greatly expanded their knowledge of these things to offer better quality for their students, like Morio Higaonna and Taira Sensei have, to name just two.
It doesn't change the fact that Karate is NOT a joint locking system and never was and that Dim Mak, outside the typical vital point striking, is not a primary focus of the majority of Karate systems.
wow who deleted my posts?
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
"most people dont think out side of the box they automatically regurgitate what their instructor tells em with out thinking themselves or they excuse the fact that they are not skilled enough to pull off a certain technique on the the fact that it dosnt work
and correct me if im wrong most grappling styles dont have standing locks in them so its kind of hard to do something you werent taught"
most people I know who compete in submission wrestling or MMA are constantly looking for something outside the box that is easy to pull and doesn't require much work, and they normally come from a traditional background and have practised standing locks before, or will have tried them at some point in their class, usually early on in training when you are eager to come up with cool new stuff that works.
Its not that they don't think for themselves or are not skilled, its that this stuff doesn't work, but feel free to prove me wrong and show me instances of it working.... not just the odd one or two but several so we can see they are high percentage moves.
"yup thats my poiny exactly look at the tv show cops for example most of the times a officer is trying to detain a fleeing suspect he just clings on him to dear life until they both fall down . however there have been a few small instances where the officer used a standing lock or as i once saw a aikido throw"
So you think you could do much better?... Right… it could be as you say that all these police we see are poorly trained and useless and just hold on for dear life… or it could be that holding an opponent close and taking him to the ground to limit his movement (i.e grappling) is what actually works most the time in real life…...
"well of course you need to practice daily to pull of any technique thats a big duh lol"
Tell that to all the guys out there competing who have full time jobs and can only hit the gym at most 3 or 4 times a week, they seem to do ok
well this is the end to the standing joint locking technique debate
you remember the chinese general yue fei correct? remember that he taught his troops the joint locking techniques that re now present in eagle claw?
well do explain to me why a general would teach his army ineffective techniques that dont work in alife and death battle?
this will be fun
and please lets not have this turn into a nother dale cornary heart attack thread just because you dont like my opinion on a subject dosnt mean you have to get your panties in abunch over it
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
yes actually i think going close to someone and pretty much hugging onto them until you drag himdown with you is a ineffective means of a takedown compared to a standing joint lock or say a judo trip or throw which is more efficient and uses less effort because you arent meeting force with force as you would do brutishly tugging them to the ground
the bjj coach i had even worked as a cop and a corrections officer and noted most police cant properly defend themselves and rely too much on their weapons
as far as your last comment indeed but those who train everyday dilligently will far surpass those who only train three or four times a week
and please dont respond to this in a rediculous manner im getting quite bored with the key board bil jee that is rampant on the wing chun forum
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
So I ask for evidence of standing locks working and you go back 800 years or so to talk about some Chinese general? Were you there, did you see how effective these techniques were on the battle field… don’t you think that his number one priority in war time would have been training his troops in armed combat? And if the techniques he trained were so good, where are all the eagle claw guys now dominating the MMA and grappling competitions with there standing locks…. Any examples…. Anywhere….
While you are at it how about some examples, preferably from this century with actual evidence… I know that might be asking a little too much but one can always hope
Why am I not surprised that you have also trained in BJJ, you see to be a expert on so many arts
Have you trained judo at all, do you know how hard you have to work to pull of those throws? Not to mention the legal ramifications of planting someone face first into the ground at a great velocity? And using trips on someone and following them to the ground ends up looking a lot like your brutish drags to the floor.
No those who train diligently every day will only surpass those who train three or four times a week if they are training useful high percentage moves, I would put money on a BJJ purple belt who only trains three times a week destroying a traditional guy practising standing locks everyday. Its not the time invested in training that counts as much as the efficiency and effectiveness of the training you are doing, and for all there faults this is something we can thank the Gracie’s for reminding us of all those years ago