What's the object lesson here?

[TenTigers]

LOL The "death" touch... They were real doctors who save peoples lives.. but they had no idea how it would work. One doctor suggested hitting someone in the nose at the right angle could kill with little effort.

I wouldn't be so quick to scoff, if I were you. It just so happens that there is truth in this. What the doctor may have failed to mention is as Hendrick would say, lack of proper power delivery platform.
The reality of this is, that with little effort, hitting someone in the nose with a schoolbus can indeed kill.
(sigh) Sometimes, I get so tired of the ignorance of some of you...

[Hendrik]

I wouldn't be so quick to scoff, if I were you. It just so happens that there is truth in this. What the doctor may have failed to mention is as Hendrick would say, lack of proper power delivery platform.
The reality of this is, that with little effort, hitting someone in the nose with a schoolbus can indeed kill.
(sigh) Sometimes, I get so tired of the ignorance of some of you...

Look at the power platform of the following,

look at the take down start at 1.45/2.43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA_AuE5Z0ZA


compare with

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DUpiPdTZKY



what type of power platform WC has which is at least par with this? if there is no such a power platform, the art is in big trouble.

[goju]

there was this one book i read a few months back i dorn remember the name but ill look for it later on today
anyway the author was ceptical abou dim mak so he was in china and asked an old master to preform a dim mak strike on him the master abile and poke dhim in the stomach the strike winded him temporarily and almost buckled him a few minutes later he recovered and thought nothing more of it
two days passed and he had to be rushed to the hospital because he was having extreme chest pains and almost died lol

he said to his exact words that he wants to see more studies done on dim mak but he wont participate in them
dim maks not a joke its proven in chinese medicine the points that are striked arecavaties you dont want to have attacked

[Lucas]

'dim mak' is certainly real, only the ideas and fantasies many people have regarding dim mak is not even close. knowledge of the bodies weak points and how to make use of that is an effective aspect of any full body damage study.

we've all felt pressure point grabs and strikes......right?


death touch? no....lol....no touch KO....please

its means to artery/pressurepoint/cavaty press....


wuxia isnt real

: that vids always funny to watch.

lesson:

"BUYER BEWARE"

[goju]

you can certainly die from being struck there but its not like in a movie where the master finger jab s some body and they grip there heart and blood shoots out of their eyes nose and ears lol
the majoirty of the strikes are not fatal i beleive only around 18 are

[Edmund]

there was this one book i read a few months back i dorn remember the name but ill look for it later on today
anyway the author was ceptical abou dim mak so he was in china and asked an old master to preform a dim mak strike on him the master abile and poke dhim in the stomach the strike winded him temporarily and almost buckled him a few minutes later he recovered and thought nothing more of it
two days passed and he had to be rushed to the hospital because he was having extreme chest pains and almost died lol

he said to his exact words that he wants to see more studies done on dim mak but he wont participate in them
dim maks not a joke its proven in chinese medicine the points that are striked arecavaties you dont want to have attacked

That's not "numerous studies". That's some book that you don't even remember the title of.
Maybe the author was a fat old man, one doughnut away from coronary failure. These are the complete scams I'm talking about.

[goju]

That's not "numerous studies". That's some book that you don't even remember the title of.
Maybe the author was a fat old man, one doughnut away from coronary failure. These are the complete scams I'm talking about.

no where did i list this as one of the studies done i just wrote that as an example of dim mak being used on a sceptic martila artist

[bennyvt]

a strike to the nose can kill. Not the old come into brain crap but he you recieve enough force you can recieve fractures around the eye socket which can cause death through shock and trauma. This nearly happened to a aussie cricket player when he lent for the ball another guy smashed him with his leg. One broke his leg the other was very close to dead.

[Frost]

dim maks real they have done numerous studies on it its just most people who claim to know it are full of crap

For something to be taken as a valid study it would need to be in a controlled, monitored environment. You would need various test subjects some not being hit at all and being used as a control group, a percentage being hit in places that are not considered dim mak zones and some being hit by masters on these deadly points. You would need to constantly monitor all three groups for the effects on their respiratory system, their central nervous system, body temperature, kidney function etc. And then the results would have to be published along with the testing criteria for others to interrogate.

To my knowledge none of this has every been done, can you point me to where these studies can be found?

[sanjuro_ronin]

there was this one book i read a few months back i dorn remember the name but ill look for it later on today
anyway the author was ceptical abou dim mak so he was in china and asked an old master to preform a dim mak strike on him the master abile and poke dhim in the stomach the strike winded him temporarily and almost buckled him a few minutes later he recovered and thought nothing more of it
two days passed and he had to be rushed to the hospital because he was having extreme chest pains and almost died lol

he said to his exact words that he wants to see more studies done on dim mak but he wont participate in them
dim maks not a joke its proven in chinese medicine the points that are striked arecavaties you dont want to have attacked

I may be mistaking but that may have been "Martial Musings" by Robert Smith.
I recall that story and I have that book.
Of course I have many books so I may be confusing the author, but I am pretty sure it was Robert and when it comes to TCMA, you must take what Robert says with a grain of salt and if I recall correctly, The "dim mak" expert did it on one of his students, but I am not 100% sure on that account.

That said, Dim mak is simply vital point striking and every MA has it.
Any more esoteric views of Dim Mak ( Qi disruptions for example) are just anecdotal until shown to be effective in a real fight.
The delayed death touch stories are just that, stories that have been out of propotion, it is obviously possible to hit someone and they die days after, there are many medical reason for that, none of them have anything to do with Qi.

[sanjuro_ronin]

For something to be taken as a valid study it would need to be in a controlled, monitored environment. You would need various test subjects some not being hit at all and being used as a control group, a percentage being hit in places that are not considered dim mak zones and some being hit by masters on these deadly points. You would need to constantly monitor all three groups for the effects on their respiratory system, their central nervous system, body temperature, kidney function etc. And then the results would have to be published along with the testing criteria for others to interrogate.

To my knowledge none of this has every been done, can you point me to where these studies can be found?

There were some studies done along the lines of the accupressure ones as they related to shiatsu and accpunture, they showed that by pressing or striking certain points that a response was illcited, of course that has zero to do with what can happen in a fight.

[JPinAZ]

Look at the power platform of the following,

look at the take down start at 1.45/2.43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA_AuE5Z0ZA

compare with
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DUpiPdTZKY

What type of power platform WC has which is at least par with this? if there is no such a power platform, the art is in big trouble.

Ok, the 2 videos use totally differnt fighting and body methods than WCK. So, what is the point of comparing the 2 videos in relation to WC?
What power platform of WC are you referring too?

[Hendrik]

Ok, the 2 videos use totally differnt fighting and body methods than WCK. So, what is the point of comparing the 2 videos in relation to WC?
What power platform of WC are you referring too?

simple, is your WCK capable to follow /deal with what they do when they applied their power on you? just to be par or neutalized them? what kind /type of power platform do your wck have to do that? where is your training is from , which wck set?

i am not asking for a move or a technics. I am asking how do one evoke that power when the opponents execute their technics on you and where in your wck you got train to have to type of power?


For example, seriously can one's forward intending YJKYM deal with these attacked?

[JPinAZ]

simple, is your WCK capable to follow /deal with what they do when they applied their power on you? just to be par or neutalized them? what kind of power platform do your wck have? where is your training is from , which wck set?

i am not asking for a move or a technics. I am asking how do one evoke power when the opponents execute their technics on you and where in your wck you got train to have to type of power?

For example, seriously can one's forward intending YJKYM deal with these attacked?

Still not 100% sure what you are talking about with 'evoke power' or 'power platform' - are you talking root? structure? ability to transmit force through hitting? How I am bridging?
Power platform just seems so vague..

Besides that, I deal with these types of takedowns by controlling my own space with solid structures and reference points, using correct angles, footwork and positioning (duei ying/jeui ying), gate theories, box theories, etc. Then there's just proper bridging strategies. All of these things allow me to have a good chance of letting the person get that close in the first place. It's not just my YJKYM that deals with these types of things (but it does support all my actions. Basically, you have to be able to root energies).

Are you suggesting if I have proper YJKYM, it's all I need and then I can't be taken down?
And could you please answer your own questions? how do you deal with the same type of attacks as shown in the videos?

[t_niehoff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc

Both he and his students were completely convinced that the junk he was teaching them was real. This is what happens when you train in a little cocoon, and don't venture out into the real world to test things out.

While this is an extreme example, it's not really that much different than the things that many of the people post here. Just look at how many people talk about the skill of this or that grandmaster, but there is absolutely no evidence of this person doing anything skillful outside of the training facility with his own students or students attending a seminar.

It's also not that much different than those who claim certain techniques (can we say standing joint locks) are valid, although there is next to no evidence of these things working on a consistent basis.

And yes, this guy was talking crap about MMA being a sport with rules and how he had actually fought many times on the street and was also undefeated in over 200 no rules matches... and, until this match, there was no evidence of his skills, except as "felt" by his students. Sound familiar?

It is very easy to tell what is real or not: are you actually seeing it done consistently in fighting and against skilled people? If yes, then it is real or true. If no, then it is bullsh1t.