Wing Chun in US Military

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4_ZO...eature=related

Bruce Lee's Kung Fu brother teaching in Taiwan's police academy.

he is also invited to teach military police in the US Army.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOL3I...eature=related

tan shou.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS58e...eature=related

straight punches.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqWk6...eature=related

explained principles in Switzerland.

[SPJ]

safe or defense first

you may choose to attack or not to attack

but protect your vital area or centerline first.

--

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RnXO...eature=related

single hand practice drill.

tan shou, wing hand ---

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0vDF...eature=channel

free WC lessons from teacher Wong.

[JPinAZ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOL3I...eature=related

tan shou.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS58e...eature=related

straight punches.

Since it's up here, in the first video, can someone explain the intent/mechanics in these actions? I don't mean any offence, but it looks like a lot of chasing hands to me - it seems there is no fwd intent in those tan saus on the first link.
Can even see it in the first link about 4 seconds in where he totally misses her arm/wrist.

JP

[aelward]

Since it's up here, in the first video, can someone explain the intent/mechanics in these actions? I don't mean any offence, but it looks like a lot of chasing hands to me - it seems there is no fwd intent in those tan saus on the first link.
Can even see it in the first link about 4 seconds in where he totally misses her arm/wrist.

JP

He's explaining that the trajectory of the Tan Sao (specifically, from section 3 of Siu Lum Tao) crosses over the center line. Contrary to chasing hands, he is actually covering a large area so that regardless of where her vector of attack, he is picking it up. We can tell that this is the intent of his lesson since from :10 - :14, he shows that if the Tan does not cross center, it will not cover the attack.

From what I gather from his body language after missing the attack at :04, I would guess that she was not aiming at his center? Even so, he does redirect her attack, albeit with his fingers :P And his fingers are very very tough, I've seen him dent a thin metal door with a Biu Jee form flick before. But probably not as good for those of us with not-so-tough fingers.

[JPinAZ]

He's explaining that the trajectory of the Tan Sao (specifically, from section 3 of Siu Lum Tao) crosses over the center line. Contrary to chasing hands, he is actually covering a large area so that regardless of where her vector of attack, he is picking it up. We can tell that this is the intent of his lesson since from :10 - :14, he shows that if the Tan does not cross center, it will not cover the attack.

From what I gather from his body language after missing the attack at :04, I would guess that she was not aiming at his center? Even so, he does redirect her attack, albeit with his fingers :P And his fingers are very very tough, I've seen him dent a thin metal door with a Biu Jee form flick before. But probably not as good for those of us with not-so-tough fingers.

Thanks for the reply!
I guess I see taan used quite differently. If I understand the function of taan correctly, it's used for dispersing the energy of a more straighline punch and should I] not[/I] leave the center of the body. Gate theory would suggest I change my facing when I redirect the punch so my taan is still on center of my body. This allows me to use my whole body to redirect and I can still transfer the energy down to my root throught the elbow. And this will then set my other hand in good position/range on the original CL and also strike if in the opponent really commited to the first punch.

The way it looked in the video, he was moving the attack asside with his arm, and, as you said, leaving center with the taan. Even in the begining of the form, taan goes fwd, not sideways. If it's going sideways, it still could be seen as chasing hands. And, if you are doing that, you are going to have a good chance to miss the punch if it's fast (like in the vid, and it was kinda slow). If it's intent was "covering a large area so that regardless of where her vector of attack, he is picking it up" then shouldn't he had intercepted her punch at :04 even if her punch wasn't down center?

Anyway, I've seen it used like this before and was confused as to what the intent was, thanks for sharing!

JP

[aelward]

Thanks for the reply!
I guess I see taan used quite differently. If I understand the function of taan correctly, it's used for dispersing the energy of a more straighline punch and should I] not[/I] leave the center of the body. Gate theory would suggest I change my facing when I redirect the punch so my taan is still on center of my body. This allows me to use my whole body to redirect and I can still transfer the energy down to my root throught the elbow. And this will then set my other hand in good position/range on the original CL and also strike if in the opponent really commited to the first punch.

The way it looked in the video, he was moving the attack asside with his arm, and, as you said, leaving center with the taan. Even in the begining of the form, taan goes fwd, not sideways. If it's going sideways, it still could be seen as chasing hands. And, if you are doing that, you are going to have a good chance to miss the punch if it's fast (like in the vid, and it was kinda slow). If it's intent was "covering a large area so that regardless of where her vector of attack, he is picking it up" then shouldn't he had intercepted her punch at :04 even if her punch wasn't down center?

Anyway, I've seen it used like this before and was confused as to what the intent was, thanks for sharing!

JP

A couple of years ago, I swore I would never get into a technical discussion online again, but here I go... :P

In our SLT, we have three different Tan Saos. The one you refer to is in section one, during the Tan-Fook-Wu, and is used as you describe.

The one in the video is from part two of section three-- where you see a lot of variation among Yip Man sub-lineages, with some schools doing a tan-jum, others doing tan-gang, and yet others doing tan-jum-gang. Sifu Lo's does the latter of the three. These motions cover a large area and are used to take attacks off center to the outside.

The third Tan Sao is in section three, coming after Bong Sao, where the elbow sinks-- the corresponding whip causes the Tan sao to rise, cover the head, and guide an attack downward.

As for the sequence at :04, who can say for sure? People are fallible, right? I'm just guessing based on his body language.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Modern combatives is a combination of BJJ, MT and FMA.
This is what is taught to probably 90% of all US military units.
The elite units sometimes send out guys to get extra training from specialised civilian sources, typically the ones that have proven themselves in full contact fighting, guys like the Gracies and Machados from BJJ, Guys like Marc Denny of the Dog Brothers and things along those lines.
Sambo is another system, along with Judo that also gets some attention.

[Ultimatewingchun]

....at 2:15 and watch from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEHo4l0ucmY

[sanjuro_ronin]

What's your point Victor?

[sanjuro_ronin]

On a side note it shoudl be mentioned that MANY have taught H2H and Close combat to the SF of the US military, some that come to mind:
Jerry Peterson - SCARS
Frank Cucci
Paul Vunak ( at least through his students, don't recall if he trained any directly)
and others like I mentioned before.

Typically how it works is that a "drill instructor" goes out and gets qualified on a given course and coems back and teaches his unit, the results are evaluated and it is either dropped or kept with the usual modifications.

[Ultimatewingchun]

My point is that what you see in the vid that seems to closely resemble elements of wing chun striking and defensive arm positioning is about all you'd ever see in military training that resembles wing chun.

And it's there because the specialty mode of the training is called CQD (close quarter defense).

That's it.