Wing Chun in US Military

[goju]

LOL... and the three clueless, theoretical, pretend, non-fighters post once again.

Considering the fact that I used to train with the Seals and the Rangers when they would come into the Gracie academy, I have a pretty good idea of what's what.

uh huh sure you did

[goju]

7-3.
What was your record. Oh that's right. The big tough guy only beat up drunks and handcuffed guys... who knows how many women he assaulted on his watch.


Yep, GA and WA was where they flew in from.
Here's a list of the other agencies that used to come in when I trained there:
http://www.gracieacademy.com/military_clients.asp

seven three ahahahahhahahaha you lost almost half as many as you won
sheeeeesh this guy
all he is a is abjj black belt and he thinks that means he knows everything about everything
stick to grappling buddy thats all you know

[goju]

Of course not Dale, of course you know much better than I.

7-3 funny I found the following links which do not seem to show that record.

http://www.mmapools.com/fighterinfo.php?id=12199

http://www.topgunmma.com/viewFighter.php?fighterid=2263

Could you kindly point me in the direction showing your 7-3 record?

Kind of like Paul Vunak also trained Navy Seals, Duncan Leong, Leung Ting and William Cheung also have trained various military and Law Enforcement agencies as well also several other artists, even many <gasp> WC instructors as well as other arts.

Heck Leo Gaje and Leung Ting have trained, and Leo continues to train, active military units in the Phillipines. Know something funny, they actually use that training in combat, for real. I wonder why they don't do BJJ down there where they would want the best. Maybe you could go down there and train them, you know show them how it should really be done. I may be able to arrange an introduction to Leo, oh wait you were a "Dog Brother" so I am sure you already know Leo, right?

A lot of those doing training like to name drop, if someone, even on their own time, comes in and trains and they are a member of some "agency" then the claim to fame is there as well.

Could you perhaps provide some sort of documentation from the Military confirming the fact that you trained with anyone in the Rangers? Shoot, Paul Vunak has a letter from the military, so you should be able to dig one up easily. Perhaps PhotoShop could be your new friend.

yeah thats what you want to do in a real combat situation put him in the amr bar until he taps and the ref stops you
oh wait

[JPinAZ]

He's explaining that the trajectory of the Tan Sao (specifically, from section 3 of Siu Lum Tao) crosses over the center line. Contrary to chasing hands, he is actually covering a large area so that regardless of where her vector of attack, he is picking it up. We can tell that this is the intent of his lesson since from :10 - :14, he shows that if the Tan does not cross center, it will not cover the attack.

From what I gather from his body language after missing the attack at :04, I would guess that she was not aiming at his center? Even so, he does redirect her attack, albeit with his fingers :P And his fingers are very very tough, I've seen him dent a thin metal door with a Biu Jee form flick before. But probably not as good for those of us with not-so-tough fingers.

Thanks for the reply!
I guess I see taan used quite differently. If I understand the function of taan correctly, it's used for dispersing the energy of a more straighline punch and should I] not[/I] leave the center of the body. Gate theory would suggest I change my facing when I redirect the punch so my taan is still on center of my body. This allows me to use my whole body to redirect and I can still transfer the energy down to my root throught the elbow. And this will then set my other hand in good position/range on the original CL and also strike if in the opponent really commited to the first punch.

The way it looked in the video, he was moving the attack asside with his arm, and, as you said, leaving center with the taan. Even in the begining of the form, taan goes fwd, not sideways. If it's going sideways, it still could be seen as chasing hands. And, if you are doing that, you are going to have a good chance to miss the punch if it's fast (like in the vid, and it was kinda slow). If it's intent was "covering a large area so that regardless of where her vector of attack, he is picking it up" then shouldn't he had intercepted her punch at :04 even if her punch wasn't down center?

Anyway, I've seen it used like this before and was confused as to what the intent was, thanks for sharing!

JP

[-木叶-]

Yeah, the army and marines sure are experts at fighting without guns... they get a total of about a week or two of CQC training. Of course in your world of children black belts, that makes someone an expert.

I am speechless.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Modern combatives is a combination of BJJ, MT and FMA.
This is what is taught to probably 90% of all US military units.
The elite units sometimes send out guys to get extra training from specialised civilian sources, typically the ones that have proven themselves in full contact fighting, guys like the Gracies and Machados from BJJ, Guys like Marc Denny of the Dog Brothers and things along those lines.
Sambo is another system, along with Judo that also gets some attention.

[Ultimatewingchun]

....at 2:15 and watch from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEHo4l0ucmY

[sanjuro_ronin]

What's your point Victor?

[sanjuro_ronin]

On a side note it shoudl be mentioned that MANY have taught H2H and Close combat to the SF of the US military, some that come to mind:
Jerry Peterson - SCARS
Frank Cucci
Paul Vunak ( at least through his students, don't recall if he trained any directly)
and others like I mentioned before.

Typically how it works is that a "drill instructor" goes out and gets qualified on a given course and coems back and teaches his unit, the results are evaluated and it is either dropped or kept with the usual modifications.

[aelward]

Thanks for the reply!
I guess I see taan used quite differently. If I understand the function of taan correctly, it's used for dispersing the energy of a more straighline punch and should I] not[/I] leave the center of the body. Gate theory would suggest I change my facing when I redirect the punch so my taan is still on center of my body. This allows me to use my whole body to redirect and I can still transfer the energy down to my root throught the elbow. And this will then set my other hand in good position/range on the original CL and also strike if in the opponent really commited to the first punch.

The way it looked in the video, he was moving the attack asside with his arm, and, as you said, leaving center with the taan. Even in the begining of the form, taan goes fwd, not sideways. If it's going sideways, it still could be seen as chasing hands. And, if you are doing that, you are going to have a good chance to miss the punch if it's fast (like in the vid, and it was kinda slow). If it's intent was "covering a large area so that regardless of where her vector of attack, he is picking it up" then shouldn't he had intercepted her punch at :04 even if her punch wasn't down center?

Anyway, I've seen it used like this before and was confused as to what the intent was, thanks for sharing!

JP

A couple of years ago, I swore I would never get into a technical discussion online again, but here I go... :P

In our SLT, we have three different Tan Saos. The one you refer to is in section one, during the Tan-Fook-Wu, and is used as you describe.

The one in the video is from part two of section three-- where you see a lot of variation among Yip Man sub-lineages, with some schools doing a tan-jum, others doing tan-gang, and yet others doing tan-jum-gang. Sifu Lo's does the latter of the three. These motions cover a large area and are used to take attacks off center to the outside.

The third Tan Sao is in section three, coming after Bong Sao, where the elbow sinks-- the corresponding whip causes the Tan sao to rise, cover the head, and guide an attack downward.

As for the sequence at :04, who can say for sure? People are fallible, right? I'm just guessing based on his body language.

[Ultimatewingchun]

My point is that what you see in the vid that seems to closely resemble elements of wing chun striking and defensive arm positioning is about all you'd ever see in military training that resembles wing chun.

And it's there because the specialty mode of the training is called CQD (close quarter defense).

That's it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

My point is that what you see in the vid that seems to closely resemble elements of wing chun striking and defensive arm positioning is about all you'd ever see in military training that resembles wing chun.

And it's there because the specialty mode of the training is called CQD (close quarter defense).

That's it.

Gottcha.

[goju]

the black kokar system the sealS use look EXACTLY like wing chun

[Ultimatewingchun]

Do you have a link to a vid of this?

[sanjuro_ronin]

the black kokar system the sealS use look EXACTLY like wing chun

Which Team?