Yuen Kay San YGKYM

[chusauli]

that picture had me bugging up...Well there is this guy in his fifties who has been doing WC for over 20 years. My Sihing has been doing it for about 20 years. There backs are not hunched.

LOL! Postural kyphosis is preventable!

Glad to hear your training brothers are not hunchbacked.

[Pacman]

Pacman,

Perhaps semantics, perhaps not. You can always check.

what i meant was, perhaps what you refer to as hunchback is not what i am talking about. i am talking about relaxing, letting the shoulders fall naturally, etc etc. basically everything that you hear tai chi, and other soft style, practitioners talk about

What makes you feel you have more in common with Tai Ji and Xing Yi, rather than Shaolin? Its a good discussion. WCK, IMO, is not related to Shaolin, nor uses Shaolin mechanics (however the pole does), although many thnk it comes from Shaolin...

many think it comes from shaolin (due to the legend) so when they teach/practice it i think they maybe bring in that hard external shaolin aspect. look on youtube. when they drill, they do each movement with as much force as possible. when some practice on the dummy they do the same thing.

when you watch some people practice the forms, it is so stiff it looks like it could be karate.

WC as i learned it has more in common with Tai Chi due to the emphasis on relaxation and total body coordination as well as the "waist" power. in fighting, sticky hands and the wooden dummy are about the yin and not overpowering your opponent (which is the shaolin emphasis).

but of course not ever WC teacher has the same view, which is why you see a lot of chain punch charging being taught and it is labeled as good WC because they attacked/protected the centerline

A good friend of mine did a study in graduate school on Tai Ji Quan and found that cardiovascularly, Tai Ji did little for health, and in studies on people over 50 that had practiced for over 10 years, showed it did not produce great athletic ability (jumping, strength, etc.), little cardio on the step test for VO2, little in strength, and when measured with regards to BMI, showed much in overweight and obesity, (in that group) and little change in terms of Blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar. If the study were published it might eradicate the myth of Tai Ji for health.

it is not surprising that tai ji does not improve cardio. it is obviously not a physically intensive form of excercise. the mental aspects are the utmost importance

[Hendrik]

it is not surprising that tai ji does not improve cardio. it is obviously not a physically intensive form of excercise. the mental aspects are the utmost importance

The above reasoning is 100000000000000000% false. The taiji strengtening system is a different type of system.

I keep asking if one can evoke one's Zhen qi has a deep reason. That is if one cant evoke Zhen Qi then one has not yet know and enter the door of practicing the taiji type of system.

[Edmund]

A good friend of mine did a study in graduate school on Tai Ji Quan and found that cardiovascularly, Tai Ji did little for health, and in studies on people over 50 that had practiced for over 10 years, showed it did not produce great athletic ability (jumping, strength, etc.), little cardio on the step test for VO2, little in strength, and when measured with regards to BMI, showed much in overweight and obesity, (in that group) and little change in terms of Blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar. If the study were published it might eradicate the myth of Tai Ji for health.

Maybe if they GOT published it would have some validity.

There have been quite a few published studies which have more validity than a study that does not get published. e.g.

The effect of tai chi exercise on blood pressure: a systematic review.
Yeh GY, Wang C, Wayne PM, Phillips RS.
Prev Cardiol. 2008 Spring;11(2):82-9. Review.

This is a review of previous studies which they found via actually looking stuff up.
Preventative Cardiology is a known medical journal for cardiology.

"Twenty-six studies examining patients with and without cardiovascular conditions met inclusion criteria: 9 randomized controlled trials, 13 nonrandomized studies, and 4 observational studies. Study heterogeneity precluded formal meta-analyses. Twenty-two studies (85%) reported reductions in BP with tai chi (3-32 mm Hg systolic and 2-18 mm Hg diastolic BP reductions). Five randomized controlled trials were of adequate quality (Jadad score > or = 3). No adverse effects were reported."

So 85% of the studies that they found reported a reduction in blood pressure.

WHY even bring up VO2? That is an indication of aerobic capacity.

Same goes for blood sugar and cholesterol. Those are not really exercise related.
"Blood sugar" WTF? Are we talking diabetics? Unless you just ate, most humans blood sugar falls within a set and fairly narrow range. You don't want it going down or up! You can't exercise it off like fat.

[chusauli]

Maybe if they GOT published it would have some validity.

There have been quite a few published studies which have more validity than a study that does not get published. e.g.

The effect of tai chi exercise on blood pressure: a systematic review.
Yeh GY, Wang C, Wayne PM, Phillips RS.
Prev Cardiol. 2008 Spring;11(2):82-9. Review.

This is a review of previous studies which they found via actually looking stuff up.
Preventative Cardiology is a known medical journal for cardiology.

"Twenty-six studies examining patients with and without cardiovascular conditions met inclusion criteria: 9 randomized controlled trials, 13 nonrandomized studies, and 4 observational studies. Study heterogeneity precluded formal meta-analyses. Twenty-two studies (85%) reported reductions in BP with tai chi (3-32 mm Hg systolic and 2-18 mm Hg diastolic BP reductions). Five randomized controlled trials were of adequate quality (Jadad score > or = 3). No adverse effects were reported."

So 85% of the studies that they found reported a reduction in blood pressure.

WHY even bring up VO2? That is an indication of aerobic capacity.

Same goes for blood sugar and cholesterol. Those are not really exercise related.
"Blood sugar" WTF? Are we talking diabetics? Unless you just ate, most humans blood sugar falls within a set and fairly narrow range. You don't want it going down or up! You can't exercise it off like fat.

Different groups = different results.

The unpublished study was a group of asian males in their 50"s, who practiced Tai Ji for over 10 years. The blood pressure, blood sugar and cholesterol levels were to ascertain their base physiology, as viewed in the eyes of modern medicine.

That study basically showed there was no measurable health difference with the Tai Ji practice and that Tai Ji Quan did not produce supermen, nor were they greater as they got older contrary to popular myth.

I asked my friend to publish it...

[Pacman]

The above reasoning is 100000000000000000% false. The taiji strengtening system is a different type of system.

I keep asking if one can evoke one's Zhen qi has a deep reason. That is if one cant evoke Zhen Qi then one has not yet know and enter the door of practicing the taiji type of system.

as usual i understood about 5% of that post, but if you are confusing Zen meditation with Taoist (Tai Chi) meditation then you have a lot to learn

[Ultimatewingchun]

Hendrik is just a confused person, period.

So go easy on him!

[Edmund]

Different groups = different results.

No you have one unpublished result whereas the other review has 26 published results which all scored 3/5 or more on the Jadad scale. This means blinded and/or randomized clinical trials or some element of randomizing of the results or observations.

Your study sounds like it's scoring less than 3/5.

[CFT]

as usual i understood about 5% of that post, but if you are confusing Zen meditation with Taoist (Tai Chi) meditation then you have a lot to learn

Hendrik is just a confused person, period.

So go easy on him!

You're letting your personal prejudices cloud your reasoning.

Zhen Qi activation/cultivation has got nothing to do with Zen/Chan meditation AFAIK. There is a process or maybe processes since each school's method may be different.

WC as i learned it has more in common with Tai Chi due to the emphasis on relaxation and total body coordination as well as the "waist" power.

To describe Taiji in just these terms is not enough if you are a "true" (LOL) IMA practitioner. If you buy into the "Internal" school of thought then you have to address the cultivation of zhen qi as Hendrik keeps bringing up.

[Yoshiyahu]

what i meant was, perhaps what you refer to as hunchback is not what i am talking about. i am talking about relaxing, letting the shoulders fall naturally, etc etc. basically everything that you hear tai chi, and other soft style, practitioners talk about

Pacman excellent analogy. This is great. To me trying to strengthing the chest kinda hurts its like doing something your body is naturally use to. An many WC people on youtube look Superman with their chest stuck out and their backed concaved. Lol....ha ha...Extremely funny looking. Its like exposing all your organs making it easier for someone to strike them...

Yes, its true Many people do their SLT and other forms too hard. But this is Mostly in Yip Man Lineage from what I have seen. But I practice my forms slow, fast, medium. As well as Light and Soft, Medium Force, and Extremely hard snapping force at the end of each strike.

[Pacman]

To describe Taiji in just these terms is not enough if you are a "true" (LOL) IMA practitioner. If you buy into the "Internal" school of thought then you have to address the cultivation of zhen qi as Hendrik keeps bringing up.

you are right, there is more to it than what i wrote, but i am not hendrik and so i didnt feel like writing an essay--i obviously learned something different than what others learned

[Hendrik]

as usual i understood about 5% of that post, but if you are confusing Zen meditation with Taoist (Tai Chi) meditation then you have a lot to learn

who is confusing here?

or speaking with an expert tone on something one is clueless?


Dont believe me? hahahah, describe the following.

do you mind to share what is Zen meditation and taoist meditation means?

and what is Taiji practice is about?

[Hendrik]

Hendrik is just a confused person, period.

So go easy on him!

sure, from some one who has a confused mind and could not differentiate what is what.

[Hendrik]

You're letting your personal prejudices cloud your reasoning.

Zhen Qi activation/cultivation has got nothing to do with Zen/Chan meditation AFAIK. There is a process or maybe processes since each school's method may be different.

To describe Taiji in just these terms is not enough if you are a "true" (LOL) IMA practitioner. If you buy into the "Internal" school of thought then you have to address the cultivation of zhen qi as Hendrik keeps bringing up.

Yup. show the "beef".

[Hendrik]

you are right, there is more to it than what i wrote, but i am not hendrik and so i didnt feel like writing an essay--i obviously learned something different than what others learned

those who knows needs only to mention three things or three sentences for evoking Zhen Qi.

and let me assertively draw a conclusion on your hunch back....etc.

It doesnt work, in fact it block the hell out of the Ren and Du medirians.

why do I know? because I know those who can do it and it was pointing out to me, your hunch back YJYKM lock the hell out of the proper flow of the medirians.

since you dont have the technology and havent even seen one. so you dont know.

It is not that I am being erogant here but trying to help those who were in a wrong path.


You know, dont let those real IMA people laught at WCK and saying WCK is full of $hit and fantasy.