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Thread: Golden Hook Lei/Bearded Lei?

  1. #1
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    Golden Hook Lei/Bearded Lei?

    hi guys,

    "Golden Hook" Le/Bearde Lei 金鉤李鬍子: this name is often mention in regards the oldest history of many southern systems, Hung Kyun as well (eg. as one of the teachers of of Wong Keying, Tit Kiu Saam etc.)

    has anybody more info about this person please?
    PM

    Practical Hung Kyun 實用洪拳

    www.practicalhungkyun.com

  2. #2
    It's an alias for "Sing Lung" the monk also associated with Lama Pai/Pak Hok/Hop Ga

    The famous Tit Kiuh Sam also studied with him

    You have to wonder just how incestuous all the southern systems are or consider that they didn't really know their histories and relied on popular stories (myths) to fabricate histories later on
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    *snippity*

    You have to wonder just how incestuous all the southern systems are or consider that they didn't really know their histories and relied on popular stories (myths) to fabricate histories later on
    No need to wonder, but no need to take stuff at face value either.

    the environment in which many of these systems were created was not exactly what I would call peaceful and the political motivation for making a 5 foot tall man of mediocre capability into a 6.5 foot murderous rampaging monster was tempting for many, and apparently acted upon by that same many.

    Hence, we know actually very little about the true origins of many southern styles and hence the attribution to the old saying "all kungfu comes from shaolin".

    the latter being somewhat, but not exactly 100% true because many who propagated these styles were from the ranks of the monks or were sheltered in the temple etc etc.

    The devastation to chinese martial arts because of the cultural revolution will remain.

    the KMT stories will remain. PRC and ROC will never see eye to eye on this stuff I don't think. The sheer disgust with each other is huge and teh stories keep getting bigger and bigger with the my dad can beat your dad mentality that is all too common in kungfu circles of prc vs roc.

    the comic book fantasy stuff may degrade though with proper beatings administered to their propagators.

    In my opinion, it doesn't matter if you can still learn, test and prevail with what you've been taught.

    that's good enough in my books. Even if you like the alternative way of getting your daily exercise, well great!

    I take it all with a boulder of salt.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  4. #4
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    all kungfu comes from shaolin
    You know that comment bothers me. I know many say this, but how can that be when even Shaolin states that it incorporated village styles and then "SHAOLINITIZE" it. So, knowing that, why does that thought keep getting propagated?

    It makes me think, was there a VILLAGE Lee Gar? or a village Choy Gar? or any other family named style all before it became Shaolinitized?
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 08-12-2009 at 10:25 AM.
    Hung Sing Boyz, we gottit on lock down
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  5. #5
    Many use that statement about Shaolin becuase they dont know what was practiced prior Shaolin influence.

    Those who uses the phrase all military art comes from Shaolin believes for thousands of years prior to the exsistance of Shaolin there was no need for self defense or war.

    Wong Yan Lum's lion's roar is from Tibet. Wong Yan Lum's final art has influenece from his father teaching hung gar.

    So unless you ask Wong Yan Lum you wont know what he taught Tit Kiu Sam and what is from Tibet and what is from his father.

    We dont know how much was original Hung Gar or how much Hung Gar was influenced by See How.

    Maybe the correct term many not all should use is, many of the current southern martial arts has some Shaolin influence.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    It's an alias for "Sing Lung" the monk also associated with Lama Pai/Pak Hok/Hop Ga

    The famous Tit Kiuh Sam also studied with him

    You have to wonder just how incestuous all the southern systems are or consider that they didn't really know their histories and relied on popular stories (myths) to fabricate histories later on
    hello, thank you for your reply. have any reliable chinese source confirming that Sing Lung and Golden Hook Lei/Bearded Lei were one person? i have tried to google that names, but did not find anything. however, quite a few sources say that Gam Ngau Lei was a teacher of Tit Kiu Saam and Wong Keiying; as for Tit Kiu Saam, apart from tit sin kyun we do not know anything about his curriculum. Wong Keying's and Wong Feihung's Hung kyun has many lama paai long bridges - if Golden hook was Sing Lun,g that might explain where it comes from (of not from Wong Yanlam)

    all the best
    PM

    Practical Hung Kyun 實用洪拳

    www.practicalhungkyun.com

  7. #7
    Wong Yan Lam was the #1 of the "ten tigers" and Wong Fi Hung learned things from all the "ten tigers" so the long arm probably comes from BOTH Wong Yan Lam AND Tit Kiuh Sam
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  8. #8
    a clip from one of the Chinese sites on Sing Lung

    清代末叶,游方僧人金钩禅师,从四州省至广东肇庆鼎湖山庆云寺,将此拳传王隱林为了纪年其师,以金钩禅师有 “大侠李胡子”之称,遂将他传留拳技命名侠拳. 王隱林当初技成下山,曾远赴陕西省一带,隱身镖局,广结四方英豪,为的是恢复大明江山,但始终未能如愿.晚 年本落叶归根计,便返回广东. 其後在广州设馆教拳术,兼悬壶济也. 王隱林祖师武技高强,独树一帜於岭南,因而声名远播,成为广东武坛“拾虎"之一.

    hope it copies right
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  9. #9
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    hello David,

    thank you very much!

    the Chinese text is very interesting, apreciated. however, it does not mention the name Sing Lung, just "Bearded Lei" and "Golden Hook" (as one person). i have seensimilar texts, but i have never found a name Sing Lung and Holden Hook/Bearded Lei and Sing Lung in one text, saying that it was one person.

    thanx again, i hope to find out more!
    PM

    Practical Hung Kyun 實用洪拳

    www.practicalhungkyun.com

  10. #10
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    this text suggests that they were 2 diferen persons:

    一說同治初年,王隱林從西藏星龍長老(一作星隆長老)那裏學到喇嘛派白鶴拳,在廣州黃沙設館授徒,技震遐邇 。另一說李鬍子從四川雲遊到廣東在肇慶鼎湖山慶雲寺掛單,把俠家拳傳給僧人王隱林(又名王飛龍),王隱林到 廣州後還俗。
    PM

    Practical Hung Kyun 實用洪拳

    www.practicalhungkyun.com

  11. #11
    I was in a rush and my computer was acting up, so I cut only a part, clearly, the person who came south from saechun to guangdong and taught Wong Yan Lam was the person that we call "Sing Lung"

    I have to go back and read the whole text again, but who we call "sing lung" also had "as alias" Golden hook Li
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PM View Post
    this text suggests that they were 2 diferen persons:

    一說同治初年,王隱林從西藏星龍長老(一作星隆長老)那裏學到喇嘛派白鶴拳,在廣州黃沙設館授徒,技震遐邇 。另一說李鬍子從四川雲遊到廣東在肇慶鼎湖山慶雲寺掛單,把俠家拳傳給僧人王隱林(又名王飛龍),王隱林到 廣州後還俗。
    There is NOTHING (aside from a soap opera on Taiwan tv) leading anyone to believe in any way that Wong Yan Lam ever was even near Tibet (or even Qinghai)... he studied Lama / Pak Hok / Hop Ga in Guangdong under Sing Lung, who came to Guangdong via Saechun... ergo, same person, not two
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  13. #13
    Here, this is faster for me, scan of Lo Wai Kung's book
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  14. #14
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    hello David, thnx a lot for the info and the scann, in one Chinese book about southern systems i have also found that it was one and same person.
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    Practical Hung Kyun 實用洪拳

    www.practicalhungkyun.com

  15. #15
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    alias goldhook

    Ah, now I'm going nuts trying to remember the source, but I'm pretty sure I read an interview in some 70s magazine ("New Martial Hero"? "Real Kung Fu"?) in which a member of the White Crane faction also mentioned the name Golden Hook Lei as an alias for Sing Lung. When I get some time off I'll dig through my archives (stacks of junk in my basement) and post it if I find it. It would be good to have another published source in addition to Lo's book.

    jd
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