Thread: Abs

**mig** · 01-30-2011, 04:45 PM

Something I have noticed is that many martial practitioners once they started aging meaning after 50's, they develop the belly many have experienced either because of diet or drinking or may be illness. If they are masters how is that possible that they have become that way? Now I am curious for those who practice Kung fu or other sports, how do you avoid that? What kind of exercise routine you have? Any particular set of exercises?

thanks

**David Jamieson** · 01-31-2011, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by mig

Something I have noticed is that many martial practitioners once they started aging meaning after 50's, they develop the belly many have experienced either because of diet or drinking or may be illness. If they are masters how is that possible that they have become that way? Now I am curious for those who practice Kung fu or other sports, how do you avoid that? What kind of exercise routine you have? Any particular set of exercises?

thanks

lol. You're not going to like growing up.

Fact of the mater is that adipose tissue to the stomach wall increases as you age, particularly post 40.

yes, a sedate lifestyle will make it worse, but nevertheless unless you are a genetically low fat person, you can expect a little belly fat to stick to you. It's quite normal in men over 40 and completely expected over 50.

"Masters" are human beings too. lol. Best to not project some image onto them or you may just be disappointed.

Here's some Doctor info:

As we get older, the amount and distribution of body fat, lean muscle mass, bones and water will change. Fat tends to gather towards the body’s center, especially around the abdominal organs. Body fat can increase by 30% or more due to aging processes.

This change in body fat amount also decreases our amount of lean muscle mass. Muscles, as well as other organs in the body, can lose cells as we age, called atrophy. Bones, too, lose minerals and become less dense. Loss of bodily tissue also decreases the amount of water found in the body as we age.

In addition to gaining fat, losing muscle, losing bone density, and losing water, many people lose height as they age. It has been estimated that people lose up to a half inch of height every decade after they turn 40. After age 70, you can lose up to three inches of height! Height can affect weight distribution as we age as well.

Men might gain weight until they reach the age of 55, when testosterone levels drop and they start losing weight. Women often gain weight until they are 65, then lose weight due to losing muscle tissue.

fear the years as they pass!!! lol I mean, if you want to.

**mig** · 01-31-2011, 08:55 AM

Are you assuming that is the rule for every man. The reason why is that I have seen that may be valid for some who chose to have a sedentary way of living and those who are active don't have this kind of problem. I would imagine that there are exceptions as Jhoon Rhee and many master out there. I may think that there are other ways of improving your aging process and keep it in good shape. Thanks anyway for your input.

**sanjuro_ronin** · 01-31-2011, 09:01 AM

It's a power belly.
( That's my story and I am sticking to it ).

**David Jamieson** · 01-31-2011, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by mig

Are you assuming that is the rule for every man. The reason why is that I have seen that may be valid for some who chose to have a sedentary way of living and those who are active don't have this kind of problem. I would imagine that there are exceptions as Jhoon Rhee and many master out there. I may think that there are other ways of improving your aging process and keep it in good shape. Thanks anyway for your input.

No, not at all. see here:

Originally Posted by David Jamieson

*snip*

Fact of the mater is that adipose tissue to the stomach wall increases as you age, particularly post 40.

yes, a sedate lifestyle will make it worse, but nevertheless unless you are a genetically low fat person, you can expect a little belly fat to stick to you. It's quite normal in men over 40 and completely expected over 50.

*snip*

There is actually quite a lot of information about fat and aging.

The older you get, the harder it will get to keep fat off unless you are already genetically disposed to that.

Even working out everyday isn't the answer and neither is diet alone.
Anyway, there is a lot of sport and medical information about it. No need to muse about it when the information is there along with fairly empirical data to support it.

**sanjuro_ronin** · 01-31-2011, 09:32 AM

Abdominal muscles are like any other, you exercise them and they get stronger, which means that they can also get bigger.
There is no such a thing as "spot reducing" through exercise.
Making your abs stronger will tend to make them bigger, how much is a genetic and dietary thing, just like any other muscle.
Working your abs will not make fat around your waist go away NOR will it make your waist thinner it CAN actually make your waist thicker.

**mig** · 01-31-2011, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by David Jamieson

No, not at all. see here:

The older you get, the harder it will get to keep fat off unless you are already genetically disposed to that.

Even working out everyday isn't the answer and neither is diet alone.
Anyway, there is a lot of sport and medical information about it. No need to muse about it when the information is there along with fairly empirical data to support it.

It sounds like a general rule and the exceptions to the rule. I just wonder how diet is not even an alternative.

**Lucas** · 01-31-2011, 10:47 AM

Being born with superior genetics is always the answer!!!

**mig** · 01-31-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

Abdominal muscles are like any other, you exercise them and they get stronger, which means that they can also get bigger.
There is no such a thing as "spot reducing" through exercise.
Making your abs stronger will tend to make them bigger, how much is a genetic and dietary thing, just like any other muscle.
Working your abs will not make fat around your waist go away NOR will it make your waist thinner it CAN actually make your waist thicker.

If they can also get bigger how come body builders don't have big bellies as they biceps. One thing is thick and the other is having an non proportionately big belly if I assume that neither diet nor exercise will help for my six packs.

**David Jamieson** · 01-31-2011, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by mig

If they can also get bigger how come body builders don't have big bellies as they biceps. One thing is thick and the other is having an non proportionately big belly if I assume that neither diet nor exercise will help for my six packs.

For one thing, you are talking about active body builders i assume? IN which case, once they stop, see what happens.

There are 3 huge factors in why older people get a little fatter.

1) Metabolism slows right down after 40
2) Cortisol production can climb as well.
3) Genetics

Most wish they were blessed with #3

p.s body builders and weight lifters are two different animals. Many an olympic weight lifter has a belly on him. :-)

**sanjuro_ronin** · 01-31-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by mig

If they can also get bigger how come body builders don't have big bellies as they biceps. One thing is thick and the other is having an non proportionately big belly if I assume that neither diet nor exercise will help for my six packs.

Well, first of all the rectus abodominus doesn't lend itself to being a "big belly" muscle like the bicep or quadricep.
Second, diet is crucial in bodybuilding and when you go down to low single digit BF% you are not gonna have a "big belly" no matter what ( outside the "big belly" of high level steroid use).
Also you need to realize that the high level athletes you are seeing are indeed genetic freaks that were built for BB, they typically have smaller joints and long full muscle "bellies".
Powerlifters and weight lifters are a different breed as are strong man competitors.

The crux of the matter is that, if you want to have a thin waist you need the genes for it and the diet it for it.

Ab work does not narrow your waist.

**Shaolin** · 01-31-2011, 02:55 PM

All the training I do throughout the week involves a lot of core training/application, for example grappling arts like wrestling and BJJ, sprinting, power lifting and boxing. I also have two sessions per week dedicated to core training in which I use the stability ball. I see most people at the gym using decline boards and roman chairs which make the abs look nice and does increase some strength but doesn't develop as much muscular endurance which is needed by martial artists and athletes. Listed below are a couple of example I found on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Unlimite.../2/VZDDdCf8W8A

http://www.youtube.com/user/Unlimite.../1/kHIKEyxI1ac

**mig** · 01-31-2011, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin

Well, first of all the rectus abodominus doesn't lend itself to being a "big belly" muscle like the bicep or quadricep.
Second, diet is crucial in bodybuilding and when you go down to low single digit BF% you are not gonna have a "big belly" no matter what ( outside the "big belly" of high level steroid use).
Also you need to realize that the high level athletes you are seeing are indeed genetic freaks that were built for BB, they typically have smaller joints and long full muscle "bellies".
Powerlifters and weight lifters are a different breed as are strong man competitors.

The crux of the matter is that, if you want to have a thin waist you need the genes for it and the diet it for it.

Ab work does not narrow your waist.

I think diet is always important no matter where you go. It always surprised me to see thin and leaner people in China (north and south) and other places where fat start hitting in your 40's. I was lucky not to be in that world and I am paying attention to my diet after an ulcer. Both exercise and diet seems to work and who knows my gene depending from which scientific point of you.