Shaolin Rou Quan - Supple (soft) Boxing

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sal! we need that video so bad! upload it please!

Okay, finally went to my storage area and found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtJNf7vkWcU
That's the version he learned from Shi Degen, way back when. So there is clear doubt that he made it up himself.

compare to his newer version, all he did was add more moves from the Chan Yuan Gong set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb8ifq9xM00

and the history part at the beginning tells about there being 3 sets.

[SHemmati]

the forms are the same, just the newer form (in whcih Zhu is at least 20 years older) has an extra section. at the beginnings of the form, the performer goes to his left side, then he turns to the right going into pushing elbows in on horse stance. here the young Zhu shrinks body to T-stance after this mabu, while the older Zhu does a sequence of postures in between. this extra sequence is:
move forward push double palms, snap kick, double hammers strike stomach, double hammers strike ears, wave palm, shrink to rest stance, shrink to rest stance, striking hammers, turn to 7-star arms in T-stance, single whip arms on horse stance, and then comes to the mentioned shrink body to T-stance.

[Sal Canzonieri]

the forms are the same, just the newer form (in whcih Zhu is at least 20 years older) has an extra section. at the beginnings of the form, the performer goes to his left side, then he turns to the right going into pushing elbows in on horse stance. here the young Zhu shrinks body to T-stance after this mabu, while the older Zhu does a sequence of postures in between. this extra sequence is:
move forward push double palms, snap kick, double hammers strike stomach, double hammers strike ears, wave palm, shrink to rest stance, shrink to rest stance, striking hammers, turn to 7-star arms in T-stance, single whip arms on horse stance, and then comes to the mentioned shrink body to T-stance.

So, that's his big claim that he made up the form, when obviously its been around since when we was much younger and others in Shi Degen's lineage also did the set.
Same as with the Six Harmony Gong, he says he made it up, which he changed a few steps from the Shaolin 5 Directions Qigong, but it essentially is the same form.

So, there is still a lost Shaolin Rou quan set, they have the revived 36 postures yi lu and er lu sets. The Rou Quan in this video above is 108 postures (?), so there should be a middle 72 posture set. It discusses that on the narrative of one of the VCDs and also in another Shaolin medititational Qigong VCD series too it is mentioned, that 3 Rou Quan sets came from one lineage, and other Rou Quan sets came from other lineages.

[Sal Canzonieri]

That extra sequence he added makes the new version feel disjointed and out of sorts.

[SHemmati]

the form, with or without that extra section, has the Chan Yuan Gong material within. there's a close relation between this Rou quan and Chan Yuan Gong.

when it comes to Shi Degen, styles get complicated. Luohan quan and Rou quan, the 2 oldest Shaolin styles, have both versions coming out of Shi Degen's lineage and teachings, which seem strange and complicating the analyses! i think we are facing the same thing as we are about Luohan quan!

i think, like Luohan quan, we must put a distinction between Degen's lineage teachings and the nonhandled core Shaolin materials, so that the 3 Rou quans of shaolin are not of these Degen's forms, but are the 3 forms of the Shaolin Encyclopedia.

[Sal Canzonieri]

the form, with or without that extra section, has the Chan Yuan Gong material within. there's a close relation between this Rou quan and Chan Yuan Gong.

when it comes to Shi Degen, styles get complicated. Luohan quan and Rou quan, the 2 oldest Shaolin styles, have both versions coming out of Shi Degen's lineage and teachings, which seem strange and complicating the analyses! i think we are facing the same thing as we are about Luohan quan!

i think, like Luohan quan, we must put a distinction between Degen's lineage teachings and the nonhandled core Shaolin materials, so that the 3 Rou quans of shaolin are not of these Degen's forms, but are the 3 forms of the Shaolin Encyclopedia.

Well, the three roads of Rou Quan described in the Shaolin Encyclopedia are practiced as 2 roads now: the famous Yi Lu and Er Lu. But Er Lu is only done at Dengfeng.
Another thing about this version of Rou Quan, they contain within them, if not done all super fast and sloppy like Shaolin monks often to this form (what an injustice!) you can see it, are the 32 forms of General Qi JiQuang's martial art shown in his famous military history book. As such, the set has a lot in common with Taizu Chang Quan 32 postures (they are all 32 posture sets!).

ALSO, it is THIS Shaolin set that was appropriated from, along with Xiao Hong Quan (not Da Hong quan at all) and Taizu Chang Quan, when Chen Taiji Quan was being reconstructed by the Chen family after the routines of Chen Wangting were said to have been lost (they were also merged with Tong Bei).

Now, the OTHER Rou Quan is very different as it has, as you said, the Chan Yuan Gong within its base. It also have tong bei quan in it. This would be a very internal Rou Quan and more like Qigong than like a boxing set like the Yi and Er Lu are.

So, I guess Shi Degen had no trouble teaching both versions of Rou Quan, since they are so different.