Shaolin Rou Quan - Supple (soft) Boxing

[LFJ]

awesome. what about the chanyuanquan set? where did you learn it? it seems in 2007 you had only heard about it, never thought it really existed: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=47237

also, what do you know about this jingangquan set, there is so much taizu changquan and hongquan in it. the poster says its part of the cotton boxing sets, which i have only seen master deyang's school do;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSRzgdC5bfk

btw, what do you charge for your seminars?

[LFJ]

a version of the shaolin luohan 13 quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTfXbARdXS4

and by the students:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgDp--rohkk

dont know why its called "yijinjing" on both videos. it also seems to be missing quite a few of the essential 13 movements that make up the set.

[Sal Canzonieri]

awesome. what about the chanyuanquan set? where did you learn it? it seems in 2007 you had only heard about it, never thought it really existed: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=47237

also, what do you know about this jingangquan set, there is so much taizu changquan and hongquan in it. the poster says its part of the cotton boxing sets, which i have only seen master deyang's school do;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSRzgdC5bfk

btw, what do you charge for your seminars?

The truth is that there is no actual separate Chan Yuan Quan, what it is is a series of drills that you do as self defense movements based on the movements from the neigong drills. Zhu Tian Xi created that particular Chan Yuan Quan set he did. At that time I had yet to see his version of it. I had heard he had one, but had not seen it yet. Other people have their own version, I had mine. Mine includes tongbei and Chang Quan drills inside it. One of Zhu Tian Xi's students does it with Chuo Jiao kicks added to it.
That's how real routines are created, from through knowledge of the style, its footwork, strategy, concepts, core body mechanics, drills, etc. Once you have instilled the foundation into your body / mind system, you naturally created Quan (routines) from the drills.

That particular Jingang Quan set is not at all like the Shaolin Jingang style, also known as Vajra style.
What this is, is from the long fist system of styles found in Henan province that are centered around Wenxian County (which is where Chen village is located).
In this county there is a long history going way back to Tang Dynasty of Da Hong Quan (Big Vast Fist), and over time by Ming era, there developed (from influence of Shaolin Rou Quan and TZ Chang Quan, and other styles from Shanxi, Sichuan and Shandong) there developed some local internal martial art styles. Jingang Quan was one of them. All these styles have the same common core, their opening movements are about the same, to show were they came from (the movements in sets actually tell a story of where they came from, who passed the moves, etc. The opening sections are usually a series of salutes, sometimes more than one, telling who passed the set on to who. Shaolin always kept the original salutes and then added their own. So, certain Shaolin sets have like 3 or more salute material in the beginning of their sets, they were always a repository of routines, not always the originators (hardly ever actually) and they gave homage to where the sets came from by keeping the salutes.
For example, the opening moves of Lao Hong Quan Routine 1, say "the land was conquered from east to west (by Song Emperor), now protection is needed from the north, so one must ride the tiger (use martial arts, which is tough for a Buddhist to justify) to strike righteously and defend".
Cotton boxing, another name for Taiji, also another name for Duan Quan, closerange boxing, part of the Wen Family of martial arts (always mentioned in the military manuals, such as Qi Jiquang's book and others.

I charge $1,000 for a seminar, no matter how many people are there.
I give the historical background, teach the foundational movements, the core mechanics, then the nei gong, then the quan, then the applications, with hands on person to person trying out of the concepts, while explaining why things are done in such a way.

[Sal Canzonieri]

a version of the shaolin luohan 13 quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTfXbARdXS4

and by the students:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgDp--rohkk

dont know why its called "yijinjing" on both videos. it also seems to be missing quite a few of the essential 13 movements that make up the set.

Uggh, crap fu.
Not only is it missing a lot of the movements (the are not 13 Gong being done at all), but it is showing no understanding of internal movements, nothing is coming from the dantian area, no whole body movement, incorrect stances, incorrect footwork. It's being done like fake Taiji. The ending is really incorrect most of all.

I know that there are some different lineages besides Zhu Tian Xi's that do this set. But this one seems just plain wrong. Why bother doing the set this way? And passing it off as Yijinging to cover up is weird and suspicious.

[LFJ]

cool, thanks. i know about the 10 sets of the old vajra style. wasnt sure about this neigong style though.

shaolin cotton boxing (mianquan) was discussed here before. no one really knew about it. its this one:
http://www.56.com/u16/v_NDI3MDIxODE.html

i'd like to see something about the series of salutes, so i'd get an idea of what you're talking about. its been discussed before, but doesnt sound familiar.

[Sal Canzonieri]

cool, thanks. i know about the 10 sets of the old vajra style. wasnt sure about this neigong style though.

shaolin cotton boxing (mianquan) was discussed here before. no one really knew about it. its this one:
http://www.56.com/u16/v_NDI3MDIxODE.html

i'd like to see something about the series of salutes, so i'd get an idea of what you're talking about. its been discussed before, but doesnt sound familiar.

I like this one:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...83490794&hl=en

[Sal Canzonieri]

A Mian Quan set (cotton fist):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXkYf353GKU

[wuseng33]

has anyone got any ideas on what was the first of these rou quan or internal sets, i am lead to believe the luohan shi san gong was first but not entirely sure ? i am also curious as to why the luohan shi san gong set starts facing the opposite way? was there another set originally done prior to this?

[Sal Canzonieri]

has anyone got any ideas on what was the first of these rou quan or internal sets, i am lead to believe the luohan shi san gong was first but not entirely sure ? i am also curious as to why the luohan shi san gong set starts facing the opposite way? was there another set originally done prior to this?

hmm, it appears that the Liu He Gong and the Chan Yuan Gong were more simple and prototypical in movement to the Luohan 13 Gong set.

What do you mean the Luohan 13 Gong starts facing the opposite way?
I dont think it starts with your back to the audience.

What it does, like all Shaolin sets that are very much like Taiji Quan, is that it moves to the right first, whereas most Shaolin sets move to the left first.

These Shaolin sets: TZ Chang Quan 32, Rou Quan 36 Yi lu and er lu, Xiao and Da Hong Quan, Jingang Quan, Luohan 13 Gong ALL immediately go to the right and they all star with the same opening movements, as does the Chen Taijian Yi Lu set.

Most other sets in Shaolin, such as the Luohan sets, and so on, start moving to the left side first.

[wuseng33]

As you said the Lohan 13 gong moves to the right (or starts facing the opposite way compared to other typical shaolin forms) why is this for these early forms? when they all go to the left now? or as my initial thought was maybe the set had something else that led into the lohan 13 gong? just find it interesting why these are differnt and for what reason?

[Sal Canzonieri]

Well, one thing is that you can date the sets by seeing what direction it moves in first.

The ancient Big Vast Fist style that I have been talking about in the other thread is the main original root to many of the oldest Shaolin sets and it too moves to the right first.

Just about every post-luohan quan set that Shaolin has starts to the left.

Just about every set that is related to Chang Quan or Hong Quan in any way (Pao Quan, Tongbi Quan, Rou Quan, etc) starts to the right. Ancient sets were based on drills, and drills were done right side first and then left side (because most people were righty)

It's the Luohan sets at Shaolin that started the moving to the left first, with left hand guarding and attacking first.

Some think that is because this was done in honor of Huike, who chopped off his right arm to show his sincerity to Bodhidharma so that he would be accepted as his pupil.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Here's a set that is tought at the Liu borthers school in Tagou Dengfeng.
The Shaolin Rou Xing Chui - Shaolin Supple Shaped Hammers

Supposedly this set was the one that was demonstrated to the Tang Emperor by a Shaolin Monk when they were celebrating the 13 Monks that helped the new Emperor get into power.

少林柔形捶

歌诀

柔形捶法招术精，防身健体并一功；
意导引动动带息，出入进退一气成。
起落如猫行如蛇，势含松紧柔缓行；
心是主帅眼为旗，足赛战车手先锋。
拧裹钻翻回手钩，招之即打势难封；
刚来柔化借他力，顺势发捶去无空。
打前顾后闪转疾，滚出滚入巧力生；
双手互换阴阳诀，迎上取下招势灵。
捶法百炼身心合，交手之中显神通；
日久功深根叶茂，陶冶情操福寿增。

少林柔形捶谱（28 式）Shaolin Soft Shape Hammers (28 Postures)

1 虎抱頭 - Hu Bao Tou - Tiger Wraps Head
2 白猿獻果 - Bai Yuan Xian Guo - White Ape Offers Fruit
3 搬拦捶 - Ban Lan Chui - Shift (Swing) Block (Deflect) Hammer
4 餓虎扑食 - E` Hu Pu Shi - Hungry Tiger Pounces on Prey
5 回手捶 - Hui Shou Chui - Returning Hand Hammer
6 青龙獻爪 - Qing Long Zhua - Green Dragn Offers Claws
7 斜形捶 - Xie Xing Chui - Slanting Shaped Hammer
8 金雞上架 - Jin Ji Shang Jie - Golden Rooster Ascends Shelf
9 劈砸捶 - Pi Za Chui - Spliting & Smashing Hammer
10 白鶴亮翅 - Bai He Liang Qi - White Crane Spreads (Flashes) Wings
11 连环捶 - Lian Huan Chui (Linking Hammers)
12 黑熊亮掌 - Hei Xiong Liang Zhang - Black Bear Shows Palms
13 夯地捶 - Hang Di Chui - Pile-drive Ground Hammer
14 狸猫上樹 - Li Mao Shang Shu - Leopard Cat Ascends Tree
15 掏心捶 - Tao Xin Chui - Fishout Heart Hammer
16 梅鹿臥枕 - Mei Lu Wo Zhen - Plumflower Deer Lies on Pillow
17 追风捶 - Zhui Feng Chui - Chase Wind Hammer
18 鷂子翻身 - Yao-zi Fan Shen - Sparrowhawk Flips Body
19 护頭捶 - Pu Tou Chui - Protect Head Hammer
20 毒蛇吐信 - Du Shi Tu Xin - Poison Snake Spits out Letter
21 打桩捶 - Da Zhuang Chui - Strike Stump Hammer
22 雄鷹展望 - Xiong Ying Zhan Wang - Heroic Eagle (Hawk) Unfolds Towards
23 冲天捶 - Chong Tian Chui - Rush Sky Hammer
24 野馬掀蹄 - Ye Ma Xian Ti - Wild Horse Lifts Hoof
25 橫掃捶 - Heng Chui - Horizontal Sweeping Hammer
26 獅子舞花 - Shi-zi Wu Hua - Lion Dancing Flower
27 擊鼓捶 - Ji Gu Chui - Beat Drum Hammer
28 虎抱頭 - Hu Bao Tou - Tiger Wraps Head (repeat in reverse)

Starting with posture 28 you can do the whole set in reverse side.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Can someone in China please buy a copy of this book for me, I will pay you back immediately via paypal.

Title: 少林内功：柔形捶·云龙剑·修身功
Author: 高德江 编著
ISBN: 9787207038975 / 7207038976

it's only available used, it is from 1998. I need it for my research, thanks!

[SergeTk]

Deleted due to mistake on my part , confused Rui Quan with Ru Yi Quan

[Sal Canzonieri]

one of Lohan Rui Quan forms by GM Chee Kim Thong........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gS6hkq8mYg

Ruo is pinyin for Supple or Soft (not Rui, there is no word "rui").

Thanks, interesting form. Are you saying this set is named "Luohan Ruo Quan"?

(Lohan is Lindsley Lohan's last name, in pinyin it is Luohan)

(Just friendly corrections, not trying to be snobby)

thanks