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Thread: Shaolin Rou Quan - Supple (soft) Boxing

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post

    This goes back to Bai Yufeng and Jue Yuan, as they found this old Luohan material and then were taking the Five Elements material and the 8 Directions material (which came from Shaolin Hua - Transforming character - Quan) and created their new "Attacking and Defending, Advancing and Retreating Boxing", which was later called Wu Quan (Five Boxing, not Five animals, that came much later) and then later called Luohan Quan. They started with some simple Luohan Quan and 18 Luohan Hands sets that were still to be found; they went through the library at Shaolin to find things, as near the end of the Yuan Dynasty, Shaolin was pretty much destroyed (yes, yet again) by northern invaders. When Jue Yuan got to Shaolin not much was left, hence, he went searching for experts to bring in some rejuvenation to Shaolin Quan. He met Li Sou and then Li's master, Bai Yufeng, who became the head librarian at Shaolin. Bai searched through the old books and rediscovered the Five Elements and Eight Directions methods and they continued from there.
    Bai Yu Feng founded another style which could easily be Wu Quan ....... Wu Zu Quan (5 ancestors fist) above story is very similar to 5 ancestors creation story of GM Chee Kim Thong lineage.
    Last edited by SergeTk; 11-26-2009 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SergeTk View Post
    Bai Yu Feng founded another style which could easily be Wu Quan ....... Wu Zu Quan (5 ancestors fist) above story is very similar to 5 ancestors creation story of GM Chee Kim Thong lineage.
    This is where Five Ancestors story originally comes from:

    Yi Quan was a direct student of Bai Yufeng and Jue Yuan, he later traveled with Jue Yuan to south eastern China. There he was introduced to Ma Long, who further taught him internal martial arts.

    During the very beginning of the Qing Dynasty, Yi Quan later became the Shaolin teacher of the founder of Choy Gar (who was an uncle to the last Ming emperor).
    From this point the Wu Quan developed into the Wu Xing Quan (Five Animals) and much later the story of the Five Ancestors developed as a legend.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    This is where Five Ancestors story originally comes from:

    Yi Quan was a direct student of Bai Yufeng and Jue Yuan, he later traveled with Jue Yuan to south eastern China. There he was introduced to Ma Long, who further taught him internal martial arts.

    During the very beginning of the Qing Dynasty, Yi Quan later became the Shaolin teacher of the founder of Choy Gar (who was an uncle to the last Ming emperor).
    From this point the Wu Quan developed into the Wu Xing Quan (Five Animals) and much later the story of the Five Ancestors developed as a legend.
    I don't belive the legend of Five ancestors got much to do with the style of Five Ancestors...........

    I have another question is Luohan Rou Quan (soft boxing) same as Louhan Ru-Yi Quan which knows as "The old man set" or "As you Wish Fist" or "Printing The Red Palm'. More i read this topic more I come to a conclusion that they are no the same even though both are soft luohan styles..........

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SergeTk View Post
    I don't belive the legend of Five ancestors got much to do with the style of Five Ancestors...........

    I have another question is Luohan Rou Quan (soft boxing) same as Louhan Ru-Yi Quan which knows as "The old man set" or "As you Wish Fist" or "Printing The Red Palm'. More i read this topic more I come to a conclusion that they are no the same even though both are soft luohan styles..........
    No, they are two different styles.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by B-Rad View Post
    Sorry, it was 2000. I remember now because it was the year I tore my ACL :-P It wasn't part of the official performance or anything, basically at the seminar he did some taiji quan with the older folk. Looked like standard taiji quan (24 form, or one of the related forms, I'm pretty sure I recognized the sequence). I suppose it could've been Rou Quan and my memory is fuzzy, since I didn't even know Rou Quan existed. Or they could've been showing him some Wah Lum taiji and he joined in. The guy seemed was pretty friendly :-) I missed their actual demo performance.

    GM Zhu may have been clear about it, but the Wah Lum people DEFINITELY weren't. Was flat out told by Jeff Naayers and everyone else in Wah Lum that they were actual monks from the Shaolin Temple

    Hello,

    I was there and what Master Zhu was teaching was some basic chan yuan gong. As far as what my Shifu, Jef Naayers had said was that Master Zhu was a Monk who had left Shaolin Temple in protest. Also, The basic line drills that were being taught in the other seminar were basics out of the Jin Gang Quan a Traditional Set from Shaolin.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8XY_QWH7mU

  6. #66
    sal, is ur history book ready?

  7. #67
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    Hey Sal, you seem to know a lot about the history of Shaolin. My teacher teaches TCMA, and told us Taijiquan and Wudang Taijiquan and Wudang Chung Fa were both adapted from Shaolin Taizuquan. Do you know or could you guide me to information (if it is correct) that Taizuquan is the style that Taijiquan and Wudangquan came from? Thank you if you can provide the information or point me in the correct direction. I dont doubt what my teacher tells me, I just like to research and back things up I say, as so many TCMA are so obsessed with lineage and history, which I really dont feel like it matters... But it does to some.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    Here's a set that is tought at the Liu borthers school in Tagou Dengfeng.
    The Shaolin Rou Xing Chui - Shaolin Supple Shaped Hammers

    Supposedly this set was the one that was demonstrated to the Tang Emperor by a Shaolin Monk when they were celebrating the 13 Monks that helped the new Emperor get into power.

    少林柔形捶

    歌诀

    柔形捶法招术精,防身健体并一功;
    意导引动动带息,出入进退一气成。
    起落如猫行如蛇,势含松紧柔缓行;
    心是主帅眼为旗,足赛战车手先锋。
    拧裹钻翻回手钩,招之即打势难封;
    刚来柔化借他力,顺势发捶去无空。
    打前顾后闪转疾,滚出滚入巧力生;
    双手互换阴阳诀,迎上取下招势灵。
    捶法百炼身心合,交手之中显神通;
    日久功深根叶茂,陶冶情操福寿增。

    少林柔形捶谱(28 式)Shaolin Soft Shape Hammers (28 Postures)

    1 虎抱頭 - Hu Bao Tou - Tiger Wraps Head
    2 白猿獻果 - Bai Yuan Xian Guo - White Ape Offers Fruit
    3 搬拦捶 - Ban Lan Chui - Shift (Swing) Block (Deflect) Hammer
    4 餓虎扑食 - E` Hu Pu Shi - Hungry Tiger Pounces on Prey
    5 回手捶 - Hui Shou Chui - Returning Hand Hammer
    6 青龙獻爪 - Qing Long Zhua - Green Dragn Offers Claws
    7 斜形捶 - Xie Xing Chui - Slanting Shaped Hammer
    8 金雞上架 - Jin Ji Shang Jie - Golden Rooster Ascends Shelf
    9 劈砸捶 - Pi Za Chui - Spliting & Smashing Hammer
    10 白鶴亮翅 - Bai He Liang Qi - White Crane Spreads (Flashes) Wings
    11 连环捶 - Lian Huan Chui (Linking Hammers)
    12 黑熊亮掌 - Hei Xiong Liang Zhang - Black Bear Shows Palms
    13 夯地捶 - Hang Di Chui - Pile-drive Ground Hammer
    14 狸猫上樹 - Li Mao Shang Shu - Leopard Cat Ascends Tree
    15 掏心捶 - Tao Xin Chui - Fishout Heart Hammer
    16 梅鹿臥枕 - Mei Lu Wo Zhen - Plumflower Deer Lies on Pillow
    17 追风捶 - Zhui Feng Chui - Chase Wind Hammer
    18 鷂子翻身 - Yao-zi Fan Shen - Sparrowhawk Flips Body
    19 护頭捶 - Pu Tou Chui - Protect Head Hammer
    20 毒蛇吐信 - Du Shi Tu Xin - Poison Snake Spits out Letter
    21 打桩捶 - Da Zhuang Chui - Strike Stump Hammer
    22 雄鷹展望 - Xiong Ying Zhan Wang - Heroic Eagle (Hawk) Unfolds Towards
    23 冲天捶 - Chong Tian Chui - Rush Sky Hammer
    24 野馬掀蹄 - Ye Ma Xian Ti - Wild Horse Lifts Hoof
    25 橫掃捶 - Heng Chui - Horizontal Sweeping Hammer
    26 獅子舞花 - Shi-zi Wu Hua - Lion Dancing Flower
    27 擊鼓捶 - Ji Gu Chui - Beat Drum Hammer
    28 虎抱頭 - Hu Bao Tou - Tiger Wraps Head (repeat in reverse)

    Starting with posture 28 you can do the whole set in reverse side.
    Here is another version of the set.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baz1PcMPC-4&feature=plcp


    Best regards,
    Xian

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    - Also, there are the three sets of Rou Quan that Shi Degen taught. Which are said to come from one armed Haike.
    ...There is the Rou Quan Yi Lu (which is 18 Luohan 13 Gong quan), there is a 108 movement set, and supposedly a San Lu set that no one has ever seen.
    they say that "Rou Quan was made by Huike, and has 3 roads." as you said previously, the 18 postures of 13 Luohan Gong form were created by Sengchou, not Huike, and besides, it seems nobody is aware of any "3rd" road!
    a natural assumption here is that of the "3 roads of Rou Quan," they may just be referring to the long 108-movement form that Huike has created, and that it consists of 3 roads/sections, like other big SongShan Shaolin forms, which are divided into 3 roads/sections. then this long 3-road 108-movement form, made by Huike, is coupled with the shorter 18-posture old Rou Quan, whose essentials were laid by Sengchou.
    does this guess seem reasonable? or is there any way to confirm or deny it?
    Last edited by SHemmati; 03-25-2013 at 07:21 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiaji1983 View Post
    Hey Sal, you seem to know a lot about the history of Shaolin. My teacher teaches TCMA, and told us Taijiquan and Wudang Taijiquan and Wudang Chung Fa were both adapted from Shaolin Taizuquan. Do you know or could you guide me to information (if it is correct) that Taizuquan is the style that Taijiquan and Wudangquan came from? Thank you if you can provide the information or point me in the correct direction. I dont doubt what my teacher tells me, I just like to research and back things up I say, as so many TCMA are so obsessed with lineage and history, which I really dont feel like it matters... But it does to some.
    Wow, I never saw this post, sorry. I was in the hospital at the time it was posted. I have done extensive research into this, and agree completely with your teacher. Here is something that will help your understanding of that:

    http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/CMAarticle30.htm

    http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/CMA...risonChart.htm

    http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/CMAarticle35-TZQ.htm

    http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/CMA...SoftBoxing.htm
    My Martial Arts articles archive:

    http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/index.htm

    Shaolin Qigong / Neigong Healing & Self Defense Programs and Seminars:

    http://www.jindaolife.com
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    Chinese Martial Art Program: http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchoo...ArtProgram.htm


  11. #71
    hey sal I see alot of your research is in the recent Kung Fu Tai Chi Shaolin Special.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    hey sal I see alot of your research is in the recent Kung Fu Tai Chi Shaolin Special.
    It is? I didn;'t get a chance to read it, I dont have it yet. When did it come out. I've been finishing up a bunch of books so haven't gone out much.

    Like what?
    My Martial Arts articles archive:

    http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/index.htm

    Shaolin Qigong / Neigong Healing & Self Defense Programs and Seminars:

    http://www.jindaolife.com
    http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchool/index.html

    Qigong Program: http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchool/QigongProgram.htm
    Chinese Martial Art Program: http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchoo...ArtProgram.htm


  13. #73
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    here's a nice article with photos of the complete routine of the 41 posture, original Rou Quan:

    http://www.chinesekungfu.com.cn/html...f35739ff85.htm

    Looks like there is some history given in the beginning.
    My Martial Arts articles archive:

    http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/index.htm

    Shaolin Qigong / Neigong Healing & Self Defense Programs and Seminars:

    http://www.jindaolife.com
    http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchool/index.html

    Qigong Program: http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchool/QigongProgram.htm
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  14. #74
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    That's the one attributed to monk Chou (Seng Chou), of the Northern Wei Dynasty. I think the encyclopedia said it only had like 8 postures at first, if it's indeed the same set.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    That's the one attributed to monk Chou (Seng Chou), of the Northern Wei Dynasty. I think the encyclopedia said it only had like 8 postures at first, if it's indeed the same set.
    yeah, it is. Looks more like Luohan. it was 18 postures of Luohan first, then the other moves were added to it to make 41. So, we can see what the Luohan Looked like back in Northern Wei times.

    Do you have the name for the person who expanded it and when he did it from the Shaolin Encyclopedia?

    The postures have ones that were later in taiji quan, like Single Whip, White Crane Spreads Wings, and some others.
    My Martial Arts articles archive:

    http://www.bgtent.com/naturalcma/index.htm

    Shaolin Qigong / Neigong Healing & Self Defense Programs and Seminars:

    http://www.jindaolife.com
    http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchool/index.html

    Qigong Program: http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchool/QigongProgram.htm
    Chinese Martial Art Program: http://www.bgtent.com/CMAQigongSchoo...ArtProgram.htm


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