Hong Jong - Empty Dummy

[Yoshiyahu]

Well Robert Chu please share why its wrong for a beginner to learn the Hong Jong?

Is it okay for the beginner to practice on the Juk Jong?

[couch]

Well Robert Chu please share why its wrong for a beginner to learn the Hong Jong?

Is it okay for the beginner to practice on the Juk Jong?

If you read his post, he comments that before CK is SNT. And generally, you build on the skills from before. So the Jong/Hong Jong are both reserved for when a person has a good foundation in SNT and CK. That was what was said there. Unfortunately and fortunately there is a curriculum is most Wing Chun. You can't teach someone an advanced math problem without teaching them numbers. Same kind of idea with the curriculum. (Note: I say curriculum, not fighting/sparring).

[anerlich]

You do realize the Air dummy is Wooden dummy form with out the dummy right?

Yes, and I don't know why you would think otherwise unless you have comprehension issues.

[Yoshiyahu]

If you read his post, he comments that before CK is SNT. And generally, you build on the skills from before. So the Jong/Hong Jong are both reserved for when a person has a good foundation in SNT and CK. That was what was said there. Unfortunately and fortunately there is a curriculum is most Wing Chun. You can't teach someone an advanced math problem without teaching them numbers. Same kind of idea with the curriculum. (Note: I say curriculum, not fighting/sparring).

So for fighting is it beneficial to practice the dummy while learning SNT CK?

[couch]

So for fighting is it beneficial to practice the dummy while learning SNT CK?

This question doesn't make any sense.

Look:

1. If you're going to learn the curriculum of WC, then it is advisable to learn the dummy after CK. This is regardless of whether you want to fight with your WC or just learn the curriculum. It has to do with building blocks as I mentioned before.
2. Traditional Martial Arts are a strange beast. You can learn a curriculum and never spar/fight. ...just run drills and talk theory all day. As a Registered Acupuncturist, that would be like going to school and learning all the theory, but never having a 700-hour practicum at the end.

So to 'attempt' at answering your question: for fighting, it is barely beneficial to practice any of the open hand forms. For fighting, time is better spent working drills, turning up the heat on them and then putting them into a sparring/fighting context.

[Yoshiyahu]

How do you work on fighting skills or conditioning when you don't have an opponent or partner?

This question doesn't make any sense.

Look:

1. If you're going to learn the curriculum of WC, then it is advisable to learn the dummy after CK. This is regardless of whether you want to fight with your WC or just learn the curriculum. It has to do with building blocks as I mentioned before.
2. Traditional Martial Arts are a strange beast. You can learn a curriculum and never spar/fight. ...just run drills and talk theory all day. As a Registered Acupuncturist, that would be like going to school and learning all the theory, but never having a 700-hour practicum at the end.

So to 'attempt' at answering your question: for fighting, it is barely beneficial to practice any of the open hand forms. For fighting, time is better spent working drills, turning up the heat on them and then putting them into a sparring/fighting context.

[couch]

How do you work on fighting skills or conditioning when you don't have an opponent or partner?

Are you changing the subject or just trying to lead the conversation in a direction where my answer will be to your liking?

Here's a good answer to your question nonetheless:
http://stevemorris.livejournal.com/34089.html

...This stuff is probably a helluva lot better than hitting the Jong all day.