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like you and your exclusive underground fight club that no one can join?Originally Posted by t_niehoff
"hi, kettle? this is pot. you're black."
you are so hilarious. you attach that paragraph to every single one of your posts even if it doesnt apply to the conversation. you spout it off like people are disagreeing with you
who on this forum ever said that the best way to train is with people that are unskilled? no one. you're like rainman over here.
Last edited by Pacman; 09-26-2009 at 01:00 PM.
humungous the barbarian
lol!!
the first rule of fightclub is dont allow anyone in your secret club
the second rule of fight club is dont ever show your skill and methods of training you speak about so often
the third rule of fight club is you ride the coat tails of a unknown disgruntled ex wc practioner so you opinions seem valid
the fourth rule of fight club is to use terms like"unconciously incompetent"(we dont know what that means it just makes us sound like mr spock with downs sysndrome)
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
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I read this three times, and it got better each time. Thanks for this one!
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I've seen some of those and would agree. I'd also say some of the twc vids also show how to effectively bridge from longer range to shorter range without using jab/cross type of counter attacks. Nothing against Vic or anyone else, but I don't understand the obvious differences in approaches even within the same group.
On another note..
IMO, WC isn't a range-dependent fighting style, it's a system with a set of concepts, principals and tools that make a fighter better at fighting. IMO, there is no long range/short range, this thinking can lead to a technique figthing mindset. There is only a distance one can bridge and a distance one can't, regardless if it's a longer jab or a tight hook coming in. If I can't bridge, then they can't hit. So, there's either striking range or not. And if I can bridge, WC principals can apply.
From my experience, if I jab against a jab, I am going to create a long/short reach problem with my arms (as happens when throwing a standard boxing jab). From my WC perspective, this creates a time distortion and goes against 4 and 6 gate theories, as well as 2-line offense/defense strategies. I see no reason to abandon these things just because the person threw a longer punch vs. a shorter one. While I give credit to guys like Vic that are going out and trying new things and mixing stuff in at longer range to become a better fighter, I still just can't see the necessity (from my experience). WC has the answers for bridging this gap imo.
Last edited by JPinAZ; 09-26-2009 at 05:06 PM.
Banned
Anyone can do what I did and go train at a MMA school. Nothing "underground" or "exclusinve" about it. In fact, I know quite a few that are doing that.
Yes, it's hilarious that I respond to the things people say.you are so hilarious. you attach that paragraph to every single one of your posts even if it doesnt apply to the conversation. you spout it off like people are disagreeing with you
This is exactly what I mean about unconscious incompetence: many of you believe in that you and your sifus are "skilled". But 99% of WCK people, including the masters and grandmasters, are unskilled. Unless, of course, skill in WCK means not being able to fight.who on this forum ever said that the best way to train is with people that are unskilled? no one. you're like rainman over here.
Of course, it is easy to see if you can use WCK competently -- just go spar with a good, competent fighter (MT or MMA) and see if you can do what you train to do. With very few exceptions, we never see that. And the reason is simple: unless you are doing that regularly (sparring with good, competent nonWCK people) you won't be able to handle them. IOWs, they don't have competent skills.
Sure, they know the curriculum of WCK but they have very litte genuine skill WITH WCK -- fighting ability using WCK movement (doing the things they train to do in fighting as they have trained to do them). The only people who do have skill -- or CAN have skill-- are those WCK people who regularly go out and trained with good, competent nonWCK fighters and fight trainers -- and by train I mean spend loads of time sparring with good, competent fighters.
No one is going to learn how to use their WCK from people who can't use their WCK. And, the ONLY way to learn how to use your WCK is through your own hard work of sparring with good, competent, nonWCK fighters. No one can tell you, no one can show you, no one can give it to you.
humungous the barbarian
cant the same be said about you and the place you spposedly train at?just because the particular style you practice or"supposedly" i should say is used in the ocatagon doesnt give merit to you or your "gym"
and being that youve given no example of your skill we can assume your no different than some crackpot who does wc and thinks his vertical punch can make a tree explode in one blow?
of course not thats different right?
you honestly think your extending words of wisdom with you nonsense about training realistically
gee you should train hard in realistic fashion? hur hur hur gosh golly no one has ever thought of that snort hyuk hyuk
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
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you are not responding to what people say.
every time you completely derail the conversation and bring up this topic, then continue to have a conversation/argument with yourself.
first of all, the original sidebar conversation was what WC will look like in a real situation. you keep saying that WC is going to look like MMA and look like this videos on youtube. those videos on youtube are just unskilled brawls! that doesnt even look like what a skilled boxer or MT fighter would do!
btw, i have sparred people who have trained in MT, Karate, and boxing and i could always do what i trained...and it didnt look like MMA
This is exactly what I mean about unconscious incompetence: many of you believe in that you and your sifus are "skilled". But 99% of WCK people, including the masters and grandmasters, are unskilled. Unless, of course, skill in WCK means not being able to fight.
Of course, it is easy to see if you can use WCK competently -- just go spar with a good, competent fighter (MT or MMA) and see if you can do what you train to do. With very few exceptions, we never see that. And the reason is simple: unless you are doing that regularly (sparring with good, competent nonWCK people) you won't be able to handle them. IOWs, they don't have competent skills.
Sure, they know the curriculum of WCK but they have very litte genuine skill WITH WCK -- fighting ability using WCK movement (doing the things they train to do in fighting as they have trained to do them). The only people who do have skill -- or CAN have skill-- are those WCK people who regularly go out and trained with good, competent nonWCK fighters and fight trainers -- and by train I mean spend loads of time sparring with good, competent fighters.
No one is going to learn how to use their WCK from people who can't use their WCK. And, the ONLY way to learn how to use your WCK is through your own hard work of sparring with good, competent, nonWCK fighters. No one can tell you, no one can show you, no one can give it to you.
you are a moron. this is what i mean. you are having a conversation with yourself. who the hell ever advocated never sparring with competent people, WC or non WC. your response to my comment is like...mind blowing because in my comment i just stated that no one disputes this!!!!
how did the conversation even get here. read the original start of the convo. this is a complete non sequitur
the conversation might as well be like this:
"hi terrence"
"bananas in the schoolyard rule rubgy oh my god its christmas!"
"what?"
"i just responded to what you said"
"no you didn't"
"bananas in the schoolyard rule rubgy oh my god its christmas!"
my theory is that you always divert because you say some stupid **** and then people get you on it and so you bring it back to something that no one disagrees with and then argue for it so it somehow seems like you won the argument
Last edited by Pacman; 09-26-2009 at 08:40 PM.
humungous the barbarian
**** so all those years and hard work you put into a martial art and you just end up looking like a sloppy amateur mma fighter who flails madly at his opponent
i can now see the light
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
Banned
"You are not responding to what people say.
Every time you completely derail the conversation and bring up this topic, then continue to have a conversation/argument with yourself...who the hell ever advocated never sparring with competent people, WC or non WC ?!" (Pacman)
........................
***AND therefore, Pacman, the reason for continuing to argue with this guy...is....what?
Here's a hint: he's a troll.
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS !!!
humungous the barbarian
if you know how to do it right vic you can troll the trolls it can actually be quite amusing didnt you see the thread where i got dale so riled up he nearly had a heart attack lol"You are not responding to what people say.
Every time you completely derail the conversation and bring up this topic, then continue to have a conversation/argument with yourself...who the hell ever advocated never sparring with competent people, WC or non WC ?!" (Pacman)
........................
***AND therefore, Pacman, the reason for continuing to argue with this guy...is....what?
Here's a hint: he's a troll.
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS !!!
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
Registered User
im confused. Do you mean vt looks like mma in a fight. Crap people look crap when fighting. Or mma looks like **** vt in a fight.
Banned
I'm saying fighting looks like MMA/NHB regardless of what your "style" is. That's what fighting IS -- that's how people optimally move when they fight and are hard pushed. I say "hard pushed" since if the intensity drops, people can do all kinds of things -- the analogy I like is running: when people run full out, they all "look" alike (you can't change how you do it); but they can do all kinds of funny walks. Put two people in and have them *really* (100% full out) fight and whether they do WCK or cornish wrestling or hung ga or kenpo or TKD or CLF or savate or whatever it will end up looking like MMA/NHB. That's just the nature of the game.
A fight will involve stand-up/free-movement, clinch, and ground -- or some combination of those. The body mechanics, tools, strategies, tactics, etc. that really work at each stage are particular to that stage, and any martial art that is viable will use those same things. They have to. Just to use the ground stage as an example: regardless of your style, a fight on the ground is going to "look" a certain way and to fight on the ground skillfully will require that you use the same fundamental skills regardless of your style or art. All those different styles (sambo, judo, BJJ, wrestling, etc.) will by necessity need to use the same mechanics, tools, tactics, etc. They just put them together slightly differently, with differing emphasis, etc. Where is there a "style" of ground fighting that has proven viable that doesn't do what judo, sambo, wrestling, BJJ, etc. does? Right - it doesn't exist.
Of course, people can create all kinds of weird ways of moving, use "unique" tools, have various theories of ground fighting, but when the sh1t hits the fan and they end up on the ground, the stuff that works is the stuff that you see in MMA/NHB, it's the stuff you see in judo, wrestling, BJJ, etc.
It's the same for stand-up and for clinch.
humungous the barbarian
thats funny because because you have fighters like cung le and lyoto who look completely different than other mma fighters despite your claims
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
Banned
They don't "look" different. When Le and Michida fight, their fights "look" like MMA fights. Are their punches and kicks performed differently? Are their takedowns performed differently? Is what they do on the ground different?
As I said, they all use the same fundamentals. And as I said, how they put those things together is what varies and makes them unique. Silva comes out of MT and BJJ, yet similarly has a unique flavor to his game.
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Big deal, T takes a few weeks off the forum and comes back saying fighting looks like fighting - wow, how revolutionary.. So glad he came and cleared things up. We can all sleep better at night
** yaaawwwnnnn **
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