taijiquan training - state park walking

[Skip J.]

Ever since uki made his famous post on training with swords in his state park; I have been thinking of a taiji version of his post. The part about running thru boulders with swords and only stubbing his toe as an injury was eye-catching to say the least.

There are many references to training on the KF forums, but very few here in ours. I think there is a great unwashed body of folks who think they can get away with only doing the empty taiji forms and still advance on to higher levels. They have no idea their instructor is letting them think they are advancing by learning new movements; but in reality their old body is just not up to advanced movements yet. The problem is, if they don't know they need to train; then they just keep on perpetuating their lack of progress, year after year.

After the 2nd year competing in Dallas; I recognized that I better get after it or I was never gonna improve. KF guys pound the bags and run, as well as all sorts of training programs. Us old folks haven't seen the inside of a gym in decades, and most of us haven't run in a long time either.

My wife and I have always walked off and on for 40 years and needed to start again. About 3 years ago we slowly started walking some occasionally. About 2 years ago we started walking more often and faster. We walk every day 2 miles before sunup, and 6 miles around the local zoo/duckpond park on Saturday. Without saying anything to her or anyone else; I started looking up at eye level just like taiji class, staying on the back leg and sweeping the yin foot along to the front, with my hips tucked under and my chin pushed back.

That means no looking down directly in front of my feet at the ground to be walked on. Kinda scary to say the least. After 2 years I can walk without looking down to see where I'm going all day in my normal life; this takes a lot of development of the peripheral vision below eye level to accomplish. I still have a hard time going down the steps in our 2 story house, but I'm working on that every day.

Last year I did this in our local state park on their wooded trails walking with my wife 3 times. Imagine training taiji while walking with the wife! And she still doesn't know. Because I was able to step over - or on - all the many tree roots crossing the trail without falling. Now that the woods are cooling off - it won't be long until we start back again.

So for the last two years I have been able to work on learning a new movement in class without looking down at my feet; with a great deal more stamina from the constant walking.

I few months ago I found this great semi-new book "Chi Walking" by Danny and Katherine Dreyer. There's nothing in there we don't already do, but it's great to send home with beginners. It shows pics of the tucking the hips under and pushing the chin back, and quite a few other good pics. The goal is to get the beginner to maintain the correct posture at home and work, not just in class for an hour a week. That way when she/he comes back they're ready to move on, and have also developed the strength and balance needed to do the advanced steps.

It may be that us old folks need basic strength and balance training more than you young guys...

[Hebrew Hammer]

Why the hell not? I've heard of Zen walking and that some zen practioners use this as their moving meditations....I suppose if you are using Taiji applications then you'd just have to walk at a very slow pace...it would be interesting to see if you could stay in the moment, be focused and get a chance to use your skills against a Bear.

[Skip J.]

Why the hell not? I've heard of Zen walking and that some zen practioners use this as their moving meditations....I suppose if you are using Taiji applications then you'd just have to walk at a very slow pace...it would be interesting to see if you could stay in the moment, be focused and get a chance to use your skills against a Bear.

Well actually as strength and balance training - we're walking as fast as we can.. all that said, it's hard to walk very fast at all when going up'n down and stepping over-or-on large tree roots. But it's a heckufa workout! It's actually about 150 miles further into deep east Texas to any bears; and the bear hunters keep their pop down where you'll never see any yourself...

Coming full circle, most taiji apps incorporate a very strong twist-step and then turn at the waist. There is a constant turn-turn-turn on these trails; so if my hands were up, they would be taiji apps.

[Bob Ashmore]

Skip,
I had a similar experience with walking helping my TCC training. Only mine is with stair walking.
I don't live anyplace close to enough wilderness to do any real walking. The local parks near me are really too small to even work up a sweat. Until quite recently I worked in a 26 story tall building, with two sets of stairwells that traversed the entire length of the building.
One day I read an article on stair walking for fitness. Since my job is almost entirely sedentary (I am sitting at my desk with my feet propped up as I type this on my break) I was developing quite a belly despite two hours a day of TCC training. I needed to do something and since all those stairs were literaly just outside my office door....
I started stair walking during my down times.
I started out going up then down only five flights. It didn't feel too strenuous when I did it and was seriously considering upping it to ten flights.
Then I woke up the next morning.
Oh, man.
So I kept my walking at five flights until the morning I finally woke up and wasn't feeling like someone had beaten my legs with a bat.
Then I started adding one flight each time my legs adjusted.
I got up to walking up and down the stairs the entire height of the building (all 26 floors and the basement and sub-basement brought it to 28 flights total) every day. At first it took me nearly half an hour to do it, but after two years I was able to practically run up and down those stairs in just over twenty minutes.
What really got me going was when my TCC teacher noticed the stiffness in my legs and hips, even in my lower back. He asked what I was doing different and I told him about the stair walking. I had lost almost twenty pounds by then and was up to 20 or so flights but I was really tensing up my legs and core.
That was very bad for my TCC, so I thought I would have to give up the stair walking.
But my teacher told me not to give it up, just to incorporate TCC into the exercise.
He worked with me on how to use the principles of TCC to do the walking.
It was easy and should have been self explanatory if I'd have just thought of the Ten Essentials of Yang Cheng Fu.
Once I got the basic lower body movements of stepping incorporated with the principles I found that I was fairly flying up and down the stairs. It became almost absurdly easy to do after being so incredibly difficult before.
Then my teacher threw a wrench into the works when he suggested that I put in upper body movement along with the stepping.
How to do this?
Again, it was absurdly simply.
I started out using Cloud Hands (I practice Traditional Yang Family TCC as taught by GM Yang Zhen Duo and Master Yang Jun, for the visual) upper body patterns. It was quite easy to do. I was able to work that in on the very first try and never looked back.
Later, after that got a bit boring, I started adding in other upper body form movements to the stepping and most of them worked quite well. Some were better than others but all forms were eventually adapted and tried.
I tend to stick with Cloud Hands though. It's easy and it flows. Being balanced to both sides equally really helped with going up and down those stairs.
It is the whole body integration of TCC that allowed me to keep going further and faster as I did this.

Alas, while I have the same job we now have a new location. Unfortunately for me our new location only has two flights of stairs, total.
I would go up and down them 14 times, but it's just not the same as having all those endless flights to traverse.
So now I only do ten flights a day but I have found a new exercise to incorporate TCC principles into.
Bike riding!
Again, it was absurdly simple to incorporate the principles of TCC into this exercise. I ride my bike to and from work every day (weather permitting). It's about a four mile ride each way but since I live in the hills in Kentucky you have to add in the up the hill, down the hill that I do while riding into the intensity.

I am out of time for now, my break is over, but I thought I'd drop this bit of "integrated exercise" on you all and see what you think.

Cheers,
Bob

[Skip J.]

Hello Bob;

Thanks for your detailed reply! I only have one flight of stairs here, so I can only imagine the effort involved. Still, while trying to use only my peripheral vision to look down onto the stairs, walking downstairs is still challenging after two years, but it's easy going up because I can see the stair directly with my eyes. Most of the challenge on going down is the fear of missing the step, rather than inability to actually do it. But the training of my peripheral vision this way helps a lot when walking up'n down in the woods. And the very best part is when walking flat most days is that I don't have to look down at all. This has advanced the speed I can learn new movements at least 100% over the past two years..... I can look at my instructors feet and my feet 1-2-3-4 while learning it, then the intervening 6 days practice putting the steps together into the flow, and learn something new the next week.

Now that I can look ahead at eye level when walking I can align my spine properly "hanging from a hook" without tripping and falling. By walking straight up, I can then put my mind in my feet and kinda-sorta practice rooting while moving. Not the same thing as the form, but head'n shoulders above walking bent over even a little bit.

Walking flat does not increase my strength and balance anywhere near your 26 flights of stairs does. But after 2 years, I would say they are at least twice as much improved as before then.

The best part is it is something I do with the wife anyway, so I don't have to find an extra hour in the day to get it done. She doesn't notice that I'm getting a major heavy-duty taiji workout right there beside her for hours on end. That's a homerun in my book.

Bottom line is, I can actually physically do a new step and concentrate on learning it rather than building up to it over time. Increasing strength and balance as I walk has worked well for me.....

[Skip J.]

Skip,
I had a similar experience with walking helping my TCC training. Only mine is with stair walking.......

......Then my teacher threw a wrench into the works when he suggested that I put in upper body movement along with the stepping.
How to do this?
Again, it was absurdly simply.
I started out using Cloud Hands (I practice Traditional Yang Family TCC as taught by GM Yang Zhen Duo and Master Yang Jun, for the visual) upper body patterns. It was quite easy to do. I was able to work that in on the very first try and never looked back.
Later, after that got a bit boring, I started adding in other upper body form movements to the stepping and most of them worked quite well. Some were better than others but all forms were eventually adapted and tried.
I tend to stick with Cloud Hands though. It's easy and it flows. Being balanced to both sides equally really helped with going up and down those stairs.
It is the whole body integration of TCC that allowed me to keep going further and faster as I did this............................

Cheers,
Bob

Well, I tried Cloud Hands going up'n down stairs... so far I haven't got a clue how to do it. I think you have been practicing TCC a whole lot longer than me...

But I'm going to keep on trying!

I must say well done Bob!

[Bob Ashmore]

Skip,
I don't look at my feet when doing my stair, or any other, walking. I trained myself out of that very quickly for all the reasons you state. It just isn't conducive to the flow to constantly be looking down.
What I had to come to grips with about all of these types of movement in order to keep them "level" enough for me to do without looking down was to realize that there are six joints that are at play in the stepping.
Well, there are more than that but I'm thinking only of the feet and legs so six that matter.
The ankles, the knees and the hips. Two sides, six joints.
You have to use these six joints to maintain your balance and root.
The ankles and the knees most of us understand well enough to not really need mentioning.
But the hips?
I've found that most people just don't understand how their hips work. At all.
Neither did I, until I fortuitously learned to belly dance.
Yes, that's what I said, you don't have to go back and check. Belly dancing.
One of the ladies who attended our Saturday morning classes was also a belly dancing instructor. She loved to dance all over the place while we practiced and she often laughed at me (and others but in a kind way) over how "stiff" our hips are. She would tell us all the time that we don't use our hips at all and wonder how we could stay upright that way.
I, and everyone else there except our teacher, really didn't know what she meant. We saw no problems with how we used our hips and so didn't pay much attention to her.
However one day my teacher grabbed me up and took me over to her. He said to me, "You need to learn what she can teach you."
To her he said, "Here he is, show him what he's doing wrong."
She then spent about a year and a half teaching me basic belly dancing.
She taught me their stretches and warm ups, she then taught me how to move my center using ALL of my joints.
I could not believe how quickly my TCC went from "Eh, he can do the form" to "Wow, he's got the principles".
The difference in how I move, how I stand, how I view things, is simiply astounding.
And...
I can dance.
I never could dance before. At all. Typical male stiffness kept me from relaxing my center, most especially my hips, and moving was stiff and ungraceful.
But my friend and belly dancing teacher got me past all of that and now I move fluidly and much more correctly at all times.
I still have a LONG way to go, but thanks to my belly dancing teacher I am now on the right path.
Alas, she passed away last year. However her legacy lives on in that I teach those same stretches, warm ups and movement patterns to all of my students. I make it a requirement that they learn to move from thier center correctly.
But back to the stair walking, and any other form of walking of riding....

You have to use your hips. It's as simple as that. Hips and waist are seperate, I hope you see that. While they work together they are seperate parts of your body and can and should be used in conjuction but seperately.
Most people I've trained with do not know that to start out. I sure didn't know that and did my TCC accordingly.
Once I began to understand the difference between hips and waist I began to understand how you can use the six joints in your lower body to establish and maintain root no matter what position you happen to be in.
I once read an expression but I don't remember where I read it or who said it.
Chen Man Ching comes to mind but I could be wrong. I know it was he who said that he dreamed he had no arms and that's when he understand TCC.
However while this is similar it's not the same thing.
I once read that the secret to moving from your center was to imagine that your legs were in your body and not seperate from it. To use your core, your center, to move your legs and then use the legs to help that.
I couldn't figure out what that meant until I learned to use my hips.
Once I did I began to notice that I could actually feel the movement of my legs more in my center, in my core, than I could before. But it was the stair walking where that really came into play.
This may sound strange....
Oh heck it IS strange.
But I now move using a circular pattern in my hips. What's more, those circles are always going backwards.
This is a "feeling", something that I feel internally. There is some small amount of actual movement that corresponds but mostly it's a mental, energy movement kind of thing.
I imagine circles in my hips that start at the bottom, where the leg joins the hip bone, and wraps up and over to where the hip sockets poke out at the top of my hips, then back around to the bottom. The circles travel backwards all the time. I've tried to move them forward but that is too uncontrolled. By moving them forward I tend to launch myself with a lot of power, but with no finesse. By going backwards it feels to me more controlled but less overall powerful.
Still, more than powerful enough.
Using this never stopping spinning motion I pull my legs along for the ride rather than using the legs to propel me around.
By going backwards I imagine an energy band in my legs rather like the wheels on a train. The bones in my legs are the being driven by the wheel that is my hip and the joints are the pivot points that allow that backward movement to propel me forward.
Going backwards allows me to "sink" into the forms because the movement goes from top to bottom along the back of my hip, allowing me to sit down quite deeply and with rooting into any stance.

Maybe I've gone on too long about this.
I'll leave it there for now.
This is my own, personal, theory of TCC movement and I haven't described it to too many people. I guess I got to typing and there it is.
I'm probably not being very clear on this as I've never tried to put it down in words before. I know that some people I've worked on this with have not understood while others got it right away and are using it still.
It really does work. My teacher has seen the results and he is pleased with my progress so far.
I do know that since I began to use this method my TCC has gotten much, much better than it was before and I can clearly feel the energy being moved and utilized in my body where before I could not.

Bob

[Bob Ashmore]

Skip,
If you want to do Cloud Hands Stair Walking you will first need to get the feet moving as described above. Use your hips, knees and ankles to maintain a steady, level progression.
Second you will need to understand that Cloud Hands is typically a side to side movement, but stair walking is a forward movement. You will have to relearn how to integrate upper and lower using the upper body pattern while stepping either up or down moving forwards.
It gets REALLY interesting if you get as bored as I did and start doing the whole thing while going BACKWARDS up or down the stairs, but that is something you will want to wait a REALLY long time to try.
First get the stepping down. You have to be able to do this without thinking about it at all.
Then while still stepping just add Cloud Hands upper body to the stepping.
You have to learn to time the step with the waist turn and the waist turn with the arm extension, but after you get the feel for it it becomes really quite easy.

I've been learning TCC of one style or another for only 22 years. So I'm still just a beginner. If I can do it anyone can.
The only real secret to it is to relax. Just like any other thing you do with TCC as soon as you tense up you lose the feeling. So relax and breath.
Then lift one leg at a time and step, again relax.
After you begin to feel the rythym of the stepping then you will begin to feel where your body is naturally going from side to side. This is natural, you will move your center side to side to sit down onto your weighted leg. For a while just feel that movement, get used to it, enjoy it.
Once it becomes a part of you then you can begin to move in the Cloud Hands pattern. Turn your waist in the direction of the natural movement. This will enhance that movement.
Be careful, this is very powerful and at first it will unbalance you.
Once you have that waist turn integrated with your stepping then you can add in the arm extensions.
After a short time this should be natural for you.
Then you can begin to add in other form movements as you feel comfortable.

The real fun is to get going on your bicycle and do Cloud Hands while still peddling.
THAT is still quite scary for me (look mom, no hands!), but I do it every chance I get.

[Skip J.]

Skip,
I don't look at my feet when doing my stair, or any other, walking. I trained myself out of that very quickly for all the reasons you state. It just isn't conducive to the flow to constantly be looking down.........................

Maybe I've gone on too long about this. I'll leave it there for now.
This is my own, personal, theory of TCC movement and I haven't described it to too many people. I guess I got to typing and there it is.
I'm probably not being very clear on this as I've never tried to put it down in words before. I know that some people I've worked on this with have not understood while others got it right away and are using it still.
It really does work. My teacher has seen the results and he is pleased with my progress so far.
I do know that since I began to use this method my TCC has gotten much, much better than it was before and I can clearly feel the energy being moved and utilized in my body where before I could not.

Bob

Oh no, not too long at all Bob; thanks!

There is a lot of material here between the two posts.. I've read them both and it's a lot of detail. I understand what you're saying about the hips, my instructor has 14 years and really stresses turning the center and "elbows are hooked to the hips". I'll apply your instructions to the stairwalking and see where I get, but I only have 5 years, so it won't be pretty. Still chi walking in posture for 2 years has changed my life, and supercharged my learning process.... I try to teach it to beginners with the book "Chi Walking", but most aren't ready for it yet. Still, I wish I had had that book when I was just starting; but I may be kidding myself about that, my 1st year was pretty lame.

[bawang]

becareful of bears when you go in the park!!!!!!!!


remember if you see a bear clench your anus and imagine qi gathering at dantien.
you must be completely calm and not be a fraid. feel yourself melting into the cosmos.
shrink the dantian then shoot it out of your laogong point at the bear and shout "WEI"
it will explode

then do a "five heros sit on mountain" pose to honour the spirit of yang luchan

then do standing post over corpse of bear steal his bear jing
imagine a stream of golden qi floating from his anus to your bai hui point, then yuzhong, then dantian, then to yongquan and back to dantien.

say a silent "hoooooo" to build yang qi. rub dantian clockwise 18 times and relax anus. massage testicles 50 times clock wiese then 50 times counter clockwise. imagine thousands of small bears going into your body.
say "song ding konglin jin, qi ru dantian zhong." 3 times

now you have learned the top elite highest level taijiquan qigong "cai xiong qi" collecting the bear eesence. you will be strong like bears.

you will be like 20 year old but in one week if you do not steal qi of another bear you will go back to old man. you must keep killing bears to steal their bear jing. i do not know if if it works on koala bears, polar bears, or panda bears, only 100% on black and brown bears

[Skip J.]

becareful of bears when you go in the park!!!!!!!!

now you have learned the top elite highest level taijiquan qigong "cai xiong qi" collecting the bear eesence. you will be strong like bears.

you will be like 20 year old but in one week if you do not steal qi of another bear you will go back to old man. you must keep killing bears to steal their bear jing. i do not know if if it works on koala bears, polar bears, or panda bears, only 100% on black and brown bears

Hello bawang;

Thanks for the info...... still it's a long way to any bears outside of a zoo from here, all the east Texans shot'em out and they're starting to be reintroduced a long way out from the big cities.. still, it's your thought that counts, thanks again!!!!!

[GLW]

In the parks around Houston, you don't worry about bears.

Alligators - YES...but not about bears. And Alligators CAN outrun a man...who would a guessed it.

[Skip J.]

In the parks around Houston, you don't worry about bears.

Alligators - YES...but not about bears. And Alligators CAN outrun a man...who would a guessed it.

Oh my lord yes... the closest to us is Brazos Bend, and when we do walk it, we give those suckers a respect they have truly earned the hard way.... the bigger and fatter they look, the more likely they can run you down...

A few years back I was walking thru some cattails on an old jobsite that I had been wading thru for years. The thing about cattails is you can't see more'n 10' if that much. All of a sudden that "hey buddy I've got a nest here and you're too close" mama gator bellow came out right in front of me. I cleared those reeds and up the bankside as fast as a 20 year younger guy...

[Skip J.]

Skip,
I don't look at my feet when doing my stair, or any other, walking. I trained myself out of that very quickly for all the reasons you state. It just isn't conducive to the flow to constantly be looking down.
What I had to come to grips with about all of these types of movement in order to keep them "level" enough for me to do without looking down was to realize that there are six joints that are at play in the stepping.
Well, there are more than that but I'm thinking only of the feet and legs so six that matter.
The ankles, the knees and the hips. Two sides, six joints.
You have to use these six joints to maintain your balance and root.
The ankles and the knees most of us understand well enough to not really need mentioning.
But the hips?
I've found that most people just don't understand how their hips work. At all.
Neither did I, until I fortuitously learned to belly dance.
Yes, that's what I said, you don't have to go back and check. Belly dancing.
One of the ladies who attended our Saturday morning classes was also a belly dancing instructor. She loved to dance all over the place while we practiced and she often laughed at me (and others but in a kind way) over how "stiff" our hips are. She would tell us all the time that we don't use our hips at all and wonder how we could stay upright that way.
I, and everyone else there except our teacher, really didn't know what she meant. We saw no problems with how we used our hips and so didn't pay much attention to her.
However one day my teacher grabbed me up and took me over to her. He said to me, "You need to learn what she can teach you."
To her he said, "Here he is, show him what he's doing wrong."
She then spent about a year and a half teaching me basic belly dancing........

You have to use your hips. It's as simple as that. Hips and waist are seperate, I hope you see that. While they work together they are seperate parts of your body and can and should be used in conjuction but seperately.
.....Once I began to understand the difference between hips and waist I began to understand how you can use the six joints in your lower body to establish and maintain root no matter what position you happen to be in.
.....By going backwards I imagine an energy band in my legs rather like the wheels on a train. The bones in my legs are the being driven by the wheel that is my hip and the joints are the pivot points that allow that backward movement to propel me forward.
Going backwards allows me to "sink" into the forms because the movement goes from top to bottom along the back of my hip, allowing me to sit down quite deeply and with rooting into any stance.....

Bob

Ok, well I read both of them again after sleeping on it... twice!

Practicing sinking, rooting and walking up'n down stairs while doing cloud hands.... I guess I have some more things to look forward to while working up to 22 years. My Dad lived to be 78, so I can make it if I last as long as him.

So today, I walked in posture up'n down my one flight of stairs, letting my hip movement exaggerate to the fullest extent it would turning at the waist. I can do that both on the up trip and the down trip....

Then I held the hands out in stance posture while turning at the waist and I can do that, but going down is scary big time. I cannot do anything else with the hands and/or arms while stairwalking tho. I'm gonna follow your lead and see where I can improve on my starting point. Maybe next year I can do cloud hands.

Maybe in a long.long time I can do it backwards... no belly dancing in my plans at the moment... but the hips will get a whole lot more stretching and workout in the regular fashion from now on.

Thanks for the info!

[uki]

i am glad my post was able to give the grey matter a good swirl... if i may make a suggestion to improve your overall peripheral vision... juggle daily, of course they do not have to be 9lb iron balls, but juggling in general... start with something mid weight, as heavier objects tend to be easier to control... LOL... now you have stirred my memories... i also juggle while briskly walking on that boulder field - i use three of the rocks in order to preserve the essence of the place.