Mayweather vs. Marquez

[Yung Apprentice]

I don't know if any of you all followed this, but I think the media is stupid for making Mayweather sound like god for beating Marquez.

First off, Marquez was already considered by many boxing analysts a big time underdog in this fight.

Marquez weighed in at 142, two pounds under the weight limit, because he a smaller frame. Mayweather came in at 147 three pounds OVER the weight limit, and paid a fine.

On fight night, Mayweather refused to weigh in, so no one will ever know how much he weighed when he fought. Some experts estimated he weighed as much as twenty pounds more than Marquez did on fight night. Most boxers who cut weight gain 5 to 10 pounds more than what they weighed at the weigh in on fight night. Using that formula, Mayweather could have easily weight 153-158 pounds. So we are talking as low as ten and as high as a twenty pound difference in a fight.

That may not sound like much, but in the world of boxing, thats is A LOT especially when it's between elite fighters from different weight classes.

Marquez displaying his normal humble self said that Mayweather won fair and square, and the weight wasn't an issue, but I'm not so sure. I'm not taking anything away from Mayweather, because I have always viewed him as the best pound for pound, and I still think he is even when talking about Pacquio. But a lot of those in the media, want to blow up what Mayweather did against Marquez, when I think it's kind of not fair to Marquez when Mayweather can't even meet his contracted obligation. And everyone wants to say his the greatest to have ever lived, with the Marquez fight being the feather in the cap, and I just don't agree. To me this fight will always have an asterisk. If he beats Pacquio fair and square let the great to have ever lived talks begin, but not based on this fight.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Agreed. Mayweather was clearly much heavier, and the fact that he was indeed a larger man would give him longer reach too. When we are talking about 2 professional fighters, skill being fairly equal, size comes into play a lot heavier than in other situations. The fact that Marquez lost by decision speaks volumes. Mayweather, even with his obvious advantage, could not put him away. Marquez is every bit as good as Pacquio. Well, just almost. And Pacquio is actually larger in reach and height than Marquez. So he will prove to be more of a problem to Mayweather because of his reach and his superior speed.
This match up was wrong from the get go. Mayweather shoud be fighting in the next higher weight division. He dropped weight to get there, and then could not drop what he needed to in order to make weight in. Marquez on the other hand made weight easily and to my understanding actually came up in weight to make the weight in. This clearly makes them in seperate weight divisions. But that is the nature of the beast. Making money off others willingness to fight is what it is about. No matter how much the fighers make, the promoters make many times more money. Some times in order to get paid they will do unethical stuff.

[Vajramusti]

Mayweather showed superb skills.

Joy Chaudhuri

[Yung Apprentice]

LEE- I agree, although I think Marquez IS on the same level as Pacquio. His first fight, after being dropped twice and to battle back to a draw was remarkable. The second fight, I remember reading a panel of excerpts from many boxing analysts, and an overwelming majority believed Marquez was robbed of a win, not a draw, but a win. (I believe the same too)

VAJ- Yes he did show superb skills, as he always does, however it was done while having an extreme and unfair advantage.

I think it's funny, how the weight issue doesn't get pushed more. I mean, if someone doesn't follow his obligations of not using steroids they get suspended and the fight is considered a no contest.

The weight divisions are there for a safety factor for the fighters. Yet if you don't make weight, you get fined and the fight continues if the opponent is willing. Yet the opponent will almost always continue, because the card depends on him and face it, who wants to go thru the training camp and drama of promoting the fight AGAIN. I think those fights should also be labeled no contests, and the fighters should be suspended. If you can't make the weight, you should be fighting in that division.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I'm a big boxing fan but Marquez had no chance...he was never gonna be fast enough...the only one who could beat Mayweather right now is Manny Paquiou.

[AdrianK]

I think Mayweather definitely had a clear weight advantage, but the real advantage was speed and defense. There were times when Mayweather was hitting Marquez at will - That isn't a weight issue. Mayweather would've been just as fast at 144 as he would've been at the probable 155 he came in at.

Mayweather's speed was just the beginning. He displayed an incredibly quick counter left hook that was far quicker and sharper than the one he used to destroy Ricky Hatton. On top of that, Mayweather showcased a gorgeous, almost picture-perfect chopping right that the camera was almost perfectly positioned for. Not to mention his incredible Jab that Marquez couldn't even see or time, most of the night.

Okay, so aside from Mayweather's "level-up" in speed and aggressive arsenal, which kept Marquez at bay, his defense was almost impenetrable. Marquez is incredibly smart, so he was able to only hit Mayweather with counter-shots, which made me and my friends cheer in the beginning rounds that he could actually maybe land a Knockout blow. But every other time he was hitting Mayweather, he couldn't get a clean shot in. That defense was incredible.

Finally, the footwork. Mayweather was just on fire that night, he had a career high showing and has become better than he ever was. He displayed skills that would destroy pretty much everyone in the division. Sure, Mosley will give him some problems, maybe a couple other big guys in the division - But Mayweather showcased unmatched skills, its hard to make a case for anyone in the Welters or super welters, to beat him.

[Yung Apprentice]

Adrian- I agree, I think Mayweather is the best pound for pound, I always have. I think a match up against Pacquio would be interesting, because Pacquio is all offense where Mayweather is all defense. Pacqiuo has lighting fast hands, with power behind them, and has the speed and footwork to catch up to Mayweather. Mayweather's one trouble is pressure fighters. His first fight with Jose Luis Castillo, in my mind was a gift to Mayweather because I think Jose beat him. The second fight with Jose, Mayweather wooped him. But Jose and the other pressure fighters Mayweather dealt with after, are no where near as quick as Pacqiuo.

Mayweather also had problems with ppl who are fast, like Zab Judah. Mayweather being the great boxer and tactioner was able to adapt to Zab's speed and turn things around, but Paciuo is both quick and a pressure fighter, who throws a lot of power punches. My only question again will be the weight.

The weight advantage does have a lot to do with it. Marquez had to put on weight, which in turn slowed him down. To me he did look a little slower, but then again, he is getting up there in age. Also, had Mayweather busted his butt to get down to that weight, he too might have been a tad slower, if he had problems making that weight.

[AdrianK]

You're right that Mayweather has always been a great defensive fighter and he's had issues with pressure fighters in the past but...

Mayweather's showcase of his aggressive arsenal last saturday makes him a positively deadly counter puncher. Pacquiao has speed and power, but if this fight happens I would put my money on Pacquiao going lights out. Mayweather basically out-counter punched the best counter-puncher in the sport, while simultaniously making it near-impossible for him to be hit. He's much more skilled than he was when he fought Castillo the first time.

Speaking of the counter-punching, Marquez had some beautiful counters in that fight. The problem was they were so few and far between. But he did catch Mayweather cleanly a few times. I cheered every time he did because I was really pulling for Marquez

[Vajramusti]

I was pulling for Marquez as well as the underdog. But there is no question in my mind that Mayweather could handle Pacquiao or anyone else anywhere near his weight. His timing and skills are much more improved than in his past fights including the one with Castillo or Judah.
Pressure ? Look how he handled pressure from the great power puncher Corrales. He moves just enough to be out of harm's way or at least minimize punches that may land while staying in the right range for his own shots..
He was completely unmarked.
His jabs are much better than that of the guy Mosley- who challenged him at the end of the fight and who -Mosley-couldn't handle Vernon Forrest's jabs.

joy chaudhuri

[Lee Chiang Po]

Mayweather is just a much larger man, longer reach, more weight that is mostly muscle. Marquez on the other hand is a smaller man, having less reach and less muscle behind it. He had to pack it on to make weight. Mayweather probably gave it everything he had in an attempt to drop to weight but couldn't. Just a much bigger man. When we are talking about boxing, with 2 men that are obviously among the best fighters in the world, in their own weight divisions, we are talking skills. Given both to be equal in boxing skills, the one with the longer reach is pretty much always going to take the fight. He can shoot from a safe distance while the other man has to plan his counters or just cover up and pray.
In most our chosen fighting systems we train to be able to defend against larger men. That requires that we do have greater skills than he, but if he is equally skillful, then we lose that advantage and suddenly become disadvantaged because of his size. This applies to boxers as well. I don't think that they should have allowed the fight to take place, and the fact that against these odds Marquez still went the length with him says volumes.
Not trying to take anything from Mayweather, as he is incredibly skilled or he would not have been there in the first place, but a fight with Pacqiou would be very exciting indeed.

[Yung Apprentice]

VAJ- I agree, although Corrales was a better power puncher than Castillo he was not the pressure fighter Castillo was. Castillo ran thru punches, to smother opponents. Castillo was awesome at that, and better than even Margarito at smothering ppl and walking them down.

[Vajramusti]

VAJ- I agree, although Corrales was a better power puncher than Castillo he was not the pressure fighter Castillo was. Castillo ran thru punches, to smother opponents. Castillo was awesome at that, and better than even Margarito at smothering ppl and walking them down.

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Given the head shots that Castillo has taken (including from Corrales)- due to his style- he is likely to be damaged goods soon- if not already. He will be going out on his shield- but still sad.

joy chaudhuri

[AdrianK]

Castillo has been damaged goods for awhile. Did you see his fight with Ricky Hatton? The guy only fights to get out of debt now

[Yung Apprentice]

Yeah, very true. But when he fought Mayweather the first time, he was in his prime.