Wing Chun Centerline

[Vajramusti]

CFT sez:
"Tze Wu sien" = "Tze ng sien" = 子午線 which would translate as "meridian"; in other words the "North-South", "12 o'clock-6 o'clock" line. This just seems like the centreline to me - the line that bisects a person vertically into mirror halves.

Babelfish translates centreline as: 中心線, so I can see why we say "jung sien".
For Centre of Gravity line we have: 重心線 (zung sum sien).
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CFT- a quetsion on language and terminology not on martial mechanics in motion or dynamics:

COG-centre of gravity would be more post Galilean in contemporary English language.(I am NOT asserting that in Asian worlds they did not know about the effects of gravity). In your Chinese characters and in the context above what are other alternative meanings for "sum" in between
jung and sien?

Thanks,

joy chaudhuri

[CFT]

CFT- a quetsion on language and terminology not on martial mechanics in motion or dynamics:

COG-centre of gravity would be more post Galilean in contemporary English language.(I am NOT asserting that in Asian worlds they did not know about the effects of gravity). In your Chinese characters and in the context above what are other alternative meanings for "sum" in between
jung and sien?

Thanks,

joy chaudhuri

I don't think it is a good idea to split the compounds "中心" and "重心". On its own 心 can mean "heart" or "centre". So "中心" does mean "centre"/"middle", whereas "重心" refers to the centre of weight, i.e. CoG.

[chusauli]

Great job CFT!

Hendrik, you are correct! "Zi Wu Xian" is better than the common vernacular terms and have more meaning. 12 Di Zhi begin with "Zi" and the 7th is "Wu".

WCK suffers from much incorrect translation, stories, MSU.

[Vajramusti]

Language attempts to capture symbolically- an entity, an event,a process etc. But the key martial
challenge is understanding the motion. Thanks again,

joy chaudhuri

[duende]

"Tze Wu sien" = "Tze ng sien" = 子午線 which would translate as "meridian"; in other words the "North-South", "12 o'clock-6 o'clock" line. This just seems like the centreline to me - the line that bisects a person vertically into mirror halves.

Babelfish translates centreline as: 中心線, so I can see why we say "jung sien".
For Centre of Gravity line we have: 重心線 (zung sum sien).

Checking out the dictionaries for Cantonese pronounciation, the 重 in 重心 should be pronounced like the 重 in 保重.

Thanks for the correct Cantonese pronounciations CFT.

Meridian.... Equater... they are expressed in the Tao Yin/Yang symbol. With the equator being expressed by the "S" that runs through the middle.

This is also precisely where our HFY Gee Ng Ma footwork (crossing footwork between you and your opponent) comes from.

[bennyvt]

im not sure when centre of gravity would be used. I learnt that in judo but its normally used for throws isn't it. The only use i could see would be when you have a choice being to push the guy over like a take down or to push them away (not a good choice to have to make). Maybe when you intercept someone but that is more about using his momentum.

[TAYLOR1]

In Hung Fa Yi, we have three centerline concepts. The first is self centerline. An example is when working through my siu nim tao form and I’m expressing centerline through only my structures and facing because I don’t have an opponent.

The second centerline is expressed when I have a partner and I have a “point A to point B.” From what I understand, TWC has a central line, which allows one line for attack and one for defense. Hung Fa Yi has something similar called Four Gate defense using tools like Biu Da and Tan Da.

Hung Fa Yi’s third centerline is referred to as Hung Fa Yi Gee Ng Kiu Tin Yan Dei centerline. This centerline is expressed when bridging occurs and allows me to attack your center of gravity. It offers superior position and goes through energy challenges. There is extensive training to develop this. This training teaches us how to fight against a boxer, grappler or an mma stylist.

[iwingchun]

The most important thing in wing chun system is to protect the centerline, because at the centerline are all "sensitive organs" like heart etc. That's why you learn to protect the centerline from your first lessons.

I found a web page with many information and many videos about wing chun here : http://www.wing-chun.ws

[k gledhill]

That is why we strike along the line in rotation....the tut sao action from the SLT last section aka shaving hands is performed with fingers aimed low , but is in fact the xing of the line as the lead /spent hand/strike, recovers back to a new vu-sao position.
By this action we seamlessly thread the line as we extend and retract our hands .

Therefore making the entry to our own centers as we attack mindlessly, impenetrable because an arm is always striking /deflecting on it.....iow the training in vt is to avoid the hands / elbows leaving the line to chase for this reason...to avoid opening up the line..., by maneuvering the line tactically we can achieve this goal....the drills ingrain the intuitive positioning and natural line striking ...elbows are kept low to avoid losing the short lever strength/integrity.

Further making the idea of standing shoulder to shoulder as a drill like chi-sao , redundant. As is using two extended arms like chi-sao in a fight also redundant...facing a guy and turning to chase a gate with a flying tan sao off the line...further redundancy.......

what are you training to do ? chase and block, stand in the center of a guy who may or may not shoot at your legs...staying in a stance that you did for drills with a partner ? or are you becoming a "Hard Target" ...

SO based on that one can see the redundancy of your tan or other arms ...leaving the centerline while attacking, further making the idea of tan sao leaving to block / chase a gate redundant too...

tan sao doesnt leave the centerline nor does its striking partned jum sao, these 2 striking partners are the cornerstone of the VT attack. Very simple but with tactical alignment , gives economy of motion 2 actions in each BASIC strike....

The Line serves to gives us a reference in training, why we create a strike line with the wrists along the line ...in reality the opening moves are this line , but the idea isnt explained and it is thought of as a high low gaun sao ...ever wonder why an attacking system starts with 2 defensive actions in succession...answer, it isnt .

Its done with fingers aimed low to avoid raising the elbows ....wrists x the line ....if you have a rear vu sao xing the line , then on its extension along the line will contact anything on it, even with a blind fold on and no pre-contact/feeling. MAkes running into a punch on the nose as you go to attack a little harder to be done .

If you strike along this line at angles , re-enforced through training drills , dummy angling alignment etc...you have a line that naturally intersects anything coming back at it, while you maintain the ttack with little thought to defend your line, because its been taken care of in training.


brilliant system.

[Yoshiyahu]

Great job CFT!

Hendrik, you are correct! "Zi Wu Xian" is better than the common vernacular terms and have more meaning. 12 Di Zhi begin with "Zi" and the 7th is "Wu".

WCK suffers from much incorrect translation, stories, MSU.

How does this terminology and knowledge translate into real fighting?

Whats the benefit when it comes to actually fighting off a living, breathing, struggling opponent who is aggressively trying to do you in?