Why hasn't anyone shown off their internal powers?

[AdrianK]

Seriously.

All this talk of internal this, internal that.

So wheres the proof?

1.) Anyone got any legitimate videos?

2.) And what the hell is internal power, anyway?

3.) Does it give you punching power?
Does it allow you to absorb a punch?

4.) How is it any different from what the human body can normally do, with training?

5.) Anyone ever use it in any legitimate sporting competition? Boxing? MMA? Football? Baseball? ANYTHING?

So nows the time all you DBZ fanatics, put up or shut up

[Hendrik]

Seriously.

All this talk of internal this, internal that.

So wheres the proof?

1.) Anyone got any legitimate videos?

2.) And what the hell is internal power, anyway?

3.) Does it give you punching power?
Does it allow you to absorb a punch?

4.) How is it any different from what the human body can normally do, with training?

5.) Anyone ever use it in any legitimate sporting competition? Boxing? MMA? Football? Baseball? ANYTHING?

So nows the time all you DBZ fanatics, put up or shut up

http://www.coilingdragon.com/ironvest.html

[anerlich]

http://www.coilingdragon.com/ironvest.html

Not particularly convincing.

Harry Houdini could do better than that (most of the time, anyway) and he wasn't an internal master.

[TenTigers]

In many cases, when TCMAists speak of internals, they are not speaking of ch'i, but of structural alignments, and relaxed, unified whole body power, rather than relying on tenseness and brute strength. Nothing mysterious-unless you haven't been exposed to this-especially when it is devloped to a high skill level.
Many have not. It's not DBZ, it's proper practice under qualified instructors.

[David Jamieson]

Not particularly convincing.

Harry Houdini could do better than that (most of the time, anyway) and he wasn't an internal master.

And how would you know about Harry Houdini and what he could or could not demonstrate? were you there? do you have video?

the ability to withstand and recover is called internal strength.

if you get hit in the guts and immediately go loose in the bowels and weak in the knees, it's clear you lack internal strength.

If you think of it in terms of overall body development, core strength and ability to use dynamic tension, anywhere, on demand and couple that with increased durability, stamina and core strength, then maybe that's all you need is terminology that you can understand.

When people grind it all down to language issues of english versus translated english and cryptic transmission versus technical transmission in mother tongue, then it is obvious that stuff will get lost in translation.

To get angry about it is simply immaturity. seriously, making demands of people in regards to a subject you are uneducated on is the hallmark of churls. lol

try approaching with a modicum of decency and courtesy and maybe, just maybe someone might feel inclined to impart with something.

Ultimately, a surly attitude will get you nothing but rejected though. Just sayin...

[Hardwork108]

And how would you know about Harry Houdini and what he could or could not demonstrate? were you there? do you have video?

the ability to withstand and recover is called internal strength.

if you get hit in the guts and immediately go loose in the bowels and weak in the knees, it's clear you lack internal strength.

If you think of it in terms of overall body development, core strength and ability to use dynamic tension, anywhere, on demand and couple that with increased durability, stamina and core strength, then maybe that's all you need is terminology that you can understand.

When people grind it all down to language issues of english versus translated english and cryptic transmission versus technical transmission in mother tongue, then it is obvious that stuff will get lost in translation.

To get angry about it is simply immaturity. seriously, making demands of people in regards to a subject you are uneducated on is the hallmark of churls. lol

try approaching with a modicum of decency and courtesy and maybe, just maybe someone might feel inclined to impart with something.

Ultimately, a surly attitude will get you nothing but rejected though. Just sayin...

Great post except for the fact that you could have used the "knucklehead" reference a couple of times and with good justification.


It is amazing how so many people who claim a zillion years of experience in MA or "kung fu" can make ignorant posts. I am talking about Anerleich and not you.

All these guys need to do is to research and "empty their glass" a little. There is plenty of information out there even if it won't include the higher and the not so visible training (secret) methodology. However, all they do is look with a "I know everything there is to know, hence I have made up my mind", mindset.

The fault lies with pompousness of many people combined with the incomplete way that kung fu is taught in over 95% of the kwoons out there.

[Hardwork108]

In many cases, when TCMAists speak of internals, they are not speaking of ch'i, but of structural alignments, and relaxed, unified whole body power, rather than relying on tenseness and brute strength.

Excellent point!

It is amazing how when the internals are mentioned many modern "kung fu-ists" start visualising chi balls and magic powers and so on. The various ways of unifying the body and their links/references to the internals of TCMA, seem to be beyond the scope of understanding of many self proclaimed "experts" in this forum.

Of course, why should they worry? After all they know BJJ.

Nothing mysterious-unless you haven't been exposed to this-especially when it is developed to a high skill level.

Unfortunately with the kung fu scene being what it is most of these guys are not going to be exposed to this type of training. On second thoughts perhaps that is not such a bad thing when one considers the saying that goes something like, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".

When I read some of the contributions here I can put my hand on my heart and say that there aren't that many people that are "ready" in this forum.

The relevant truth,"How can one find, if one does not search", applies here. Most of these people seem to be on a different wave length to what is required in even starting the higher level TCMA methodology.

Many have not. It's not DBZ, it's proper practice under qualified instructors.

That easier said than done when considering that many of the ignorant comments on the subject of traditional kung fu, including the internals, come from people who claim to be instructors themselves.....lol,lol,lol.

Lets hope that things change.

[Hendrik]

And how would you know about Harry Houdini and what he could or could not demonstrate? were you there? do you have video?

the ability to withstand and recover is called internal strength.

if you get hit in the guts and immediately go loose in the bowels and weak in the knees, it's clear you lack internal strength.

If you think of it in terms of overall body development, core strength and ability to use dynamic tension, anywhere, on demand and couple that with increased durability, stamina and core strength, then maybe that's all you need is terminology that you can understand.

When people grind it all down to language issues of english versus translated english and cryptic transmission versus technical transmission in mother tongue, then it is obvious that stuff will get lost in translation.

To get angry about it is simply immaturity. seriously, making demands of people in regards to a subject you are uneducated on is the hallmark of churls. lol

try approaching with a modicum of decency and courtesy and maybe, just maybe someone might feel inclined to impart with something.

Ultimately, a surly attitude will get you nothing but rejected though. Just sayin...

Great post!

[Hendrik]

What is the holistic view of WCK in 1850's?

The following are the factual sample of internal, external, Hard, soft, Yin, and Yang training in SLT/SNT and where were the "technology" evolve from.


These stuffs are a few level deeper then today's general understanding on TCMA. In fact most so called sifu , sigong, or even sijo doesnt know these pre 1900 teaching.




Similar to everyone can take differential equation class in the university but not every one who took the class become the world class mathematician.

Similar to only those who knows differential equation knows what it is and those who knows only basic addition have no clue what is it.



The purpose of I post this classical information which is infact, the SLT101 of 1850, is to share to the general public
so that one can have a proper understanding of ancient TCMA. 150 years ago, Only after can graps the following that one be able to enter into the proper SLT/SNT practice. and have result. and today, by this standard, for the general public, SLT/SNT is 70% dead.


These hundred of years DNA evidence not only shows us what is SLT/SNT or the core of WCK,
it also lead us to know:
WCK is not origin from Shao Lin ,
Wing Chun is not Weng Chun.
Wing Chun is not only Tan Bong Fok..... the advance WCK deal with Momentum flow as state in the kuen kuit.

and also, lots of so called WCK internal training or WCK Taiji connection are a creation of some one within the past 60 years.

in addition, not all internal training is the same, Taiji has Taiji's way, Emei has emei's way, Shao LIn has Shao Lin's way.

IE: the Shao LIn's Yi Jing Jing in an internal art it starts its training with the lung medirian.
Emei 12 zhuang on another hand starts its training with Liver medirian.... eventhought they all use medirians and channel for cultivation, but due to different in channel selection and sequence the result is different.
and ofcorse, taiji has a different way. even among taiji there are different ways......

One must not lump this together and thinking everything is the same.



Well, most of use might not like to hear these. However, those are the facts we all have to face.

Finally, a word for those who keep bring up Internal WCK. Face it if your attainment or even your sigung's attainement is far from the following classic, forget about bring up the Internal WCK, because you dont know and not even train in it. So, what is the point to preach something or judge others on what one have no clue --- isnt that an act of self righteous fantasy?






1,

The following is White Crane of Fujian 1650's example of holistic TCMA platform.

It consist of both the external Momentum and the Internal condition of body.

This is a Kang "hard method" according to the ancient
white Crane Fujian catagorization.



White CRane of Fujian.


<白鶴仙師祖傳真法> 中的 <方七娘白鶴拳十五勢>，就載有 : [跌、砍拳…招陽、……]十五個勢法，並注明如何動作及攻防意義之所在。…….這十五個勢應為當時最早見之於拳譜中的勢 法，當是當時 所傳教的。

比如十五勢拳譜中所寫：

[招 (昭) 陽。白鶴拳法之五：

凡拳起手，只要招 (昭)陽，無論他用何勢，可用此勢，大門放過，小門直入。蓋此勢兩手顧鼻面，短牙顧中攔切，戒分 腳退後。]……。


三) 兩手昭陽、吞吐節力：雙手沉肩、墜肘、坐腕成「昭陽手」，分成三節，肩至肘為內節(根節)，肘 關節為中節， 腕關節為尾節，要做到內節如鐵一般堅實，與肩身成一整體；中節吞墜，尾節如膠如漆，靈活多變。

雙手來去出力發勁，出手時吐氣(吐)，收手時吸氣(吞)，一吞一吐互相配合無間，堅持「中門不 讓，子午不離 」。

練習時與肩、頭、背、胯、膝要貫串一氣，互相呼應，如有橡筋互相牽引、拉扯，吞肩坐節(墜肘) ，發胛力，勁 達指尖。出手時節中隨身與胯同向，不可縮入開出，手節對膝，承接全身各處之力。




2, The following is Emei 12 Zhuang platform ( a creation of 1280's) which goes a few level deeper into the mnd and body into Shen and Qi. This is a Rou "soft " method according to ancient Emei 12 zhuang catagorization



平肩裆‘是天字庄的预备势。姿势要求：两脚平行或稍内扣，与肩同宽，两腿自然直立或膝微屈，两臂自然下垂， 全身重心置于全脚掌，身体要中正不倚；舌抵上腭，口唇轻闭，目光平视，气沉丹田。

　　这一势的要点在平、正二字。气平，其一呼吸要保持平稳，平静，气才能平静，舒畅而不结滞；其二真气要平 ，即内里真气回归丹田，不升降，不开合，保持平的状态，其要领在于二目平视。正立，其一背脊骨自然正直，百 会穴与会阴穴成一垂直线；其二两腿脚平均分担体重，两臂垂下后，双肩无倾斜。平肩裆站好后，气劲自然会发于 三阳经脉，阳主外开，三阴经气机也就自然随之发动。气功动功及武功拳术的架子，一般都从平肩裆起手。在这个 基础上，继可动成两仪三才、四象、五行、六合，七星，八卦、九宫、十方与十二宫辰的变化。平肩裆做为预备势 ，可松静站立几分钟至十几分钟。

　　每个庄架的开头，做好预备势很重要。尤其长起势与长收势更是功益多寡的关键。不能把预备势简单地理解为 预备性质的架子。3次第后，预备势松静后气归丹田，可呼吸配合意念先接天之阳气，后接地之阴气，而后天地气 同接，再进一步忘息后，其身与天地同化，如此松静与内气发动运行，为起式奠定了深厚的基础。

　　武功方面，与人交手时，一种是自己先搭好架子，双目圆睁，电光四射，占领有形之先，再伺机攻防进退，另 一种是自己不搭架子，随意站如平肩裆式，气纳丹田，落于无形，发挥以静制动之用，继再随机腾挪闪展。两派身 手规法各具千秋，常以功意之深浅而定夺胜负


(the following is why the art is not for show off)

本门子孙天字见礼 , 五戒十律存中知耻
前两句非仅言礼节，是再次叮嘱天地二庄在十二庄中的重要性。

‘五戒十律‘，见后附之章文, 我们剔除其中的门派观念和宗教礼仪的说教。取其练功者以德养道，以道修德的涵义，在今人仍有其一定的现实意 义。


佛陀制戒，目的在防非止惡。五戒者：不殺生、不偷盜、不邪淫、不妄語、不飲酒。五戒為一切佛戒之基石，不論 出家或在家皆應遵守。若欲來生得保人身，今生就須淨守五戒。受持一條戒，就有五位護法善神守護，若能受持滿 分五戒，就有二十五位護法善神守護。由戒生定，因定發慧，戒定慧三無漏學成就，即可解脫。因此持守五戒，具 有了生脫死、超凡入聖、成佛種智之殊勝功德。





3, The fusion of the White Crane and Emei becomes the SLT of WCK.

A sample of kuen kuit for practicing SLT passing down by Yik Kam, the red boat actor. Which shows by evidents the fusion taking place.



眼對手 手對心 手從心發 一絲不苟…..

集意会神平肩襠 双手前起半陰阳.....單昭阳


訣云:斯為上乘法,通関開竅有奇功.




PS: some one who know Classical Chinese well want to translate this so that once for all the Western world or even modern East knows what is going on? Please do it.

That is better then keep complaining how the West screw up, no proper teaching....etc. Come on, translate these stuffs and educate everyone so that everyone not screwing up.


anyone to do scientific test? go a head, train it according to the ancient TCMA as the above, test yourself scientifically and see the result for yourself. As the Chinese saying says, Pure Gold have no fear of fire. Facts are facts scientific are good tool to again prove facts are facts.

[scottking]

chee where are you when we need you

[anerlich]

try approaching with a modicum of decency and courtesy

I'll show you mine if you show ne yours.

[Hardwork108]

I'll show you mine if you show ne yours.

I see that your "modern" crosstraining has taken you into new paths.

Are we at last seeing a more "internal" Anerlich?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Seriously.

All this talk of internal this, internal that.

So wheres the proof?

1.) Anyone got any legitimate videos?

2.) And what the hell is internal power, anyway?

3.) Does it give you punching power?
Does it allow you to absorb a punch?

4.) How is it any different from what the human body can normally do, with training?

5.) Anyone ever use it in any legitimate sporting competition? Boxing? MMA? Football? Baseball? ANYTHING?

So nows the time all you DBZ fanatics, put up or shut up

How do you dead lift 350lbs internally?

[Dale Dugas]

By using your structure to lift it rather than only your tendons and muscles.

Use of whole body power and utilization is internal in my opinion.

Plus my door is always open.

Anyone can come hit me anytime, and see that I can accept what you throw at me.

I also would love to be hit both hardwork and boulderdawg as they would finally see what true kung fu training can do for someone.

[sanjuro_ronin]

By using your structure to lift it rather than only your tendons and muscles.

Use of whole body power and utilization is internal in my opinion.

Give that man a Cigar.